Correct Samsung SSDs?

[John Mitchell]

When it was first announced that the Odyssey would support third party Samsung EVO SSD's it was asked specifically on this forum what SSDs?

We were told the 1 TB 850 EVO's (initially the 512GB) but I think it was then advised that only the 1TB versions would work. I now see on your website that only the Pro drives are now being specced. The question about whether to go Pro or not was specifically asked and we were told no - just the plain 850 EVO drive.

So which is it? The 850Pro or the plain 850. I tried an 850 today and it recorded fine for about an hour but I'd like to know if there is a reason they're not on the CD website anymore?

[Dan Keaton]

Dear John,

Our Odyssey and Apollo monitor/recorders support the following Samsung SSD's at this time:

1000 GB Samsung 850 Evo (sometimes referred to as 1 TB)

128 GB, 256 GB, 512 GB, and 1 TB Samsung 850 Evo Pro SSD's.

Respectfully,

[John Mitchell]

Thanks Dan

The website only mentions these so perhaps they could update it..

Samsung SSDs Now Qualified

After extensive testing, Convergent Design has now qualified five models of Samsung SSDs for use in all Odyssey 7.7” monitor/recorders once upgraded with the 2015.07 free firmware update. Qualified third-party media includes:

Samsung 850 PRO 128GB (MZ-7KE128)
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB (MZ-7KE256)
Samsung 850 PRO 512GB (MZ-7KE512)
Samsung 850 PRO 1TB (MZ-7KE1T0)

[Scott Stoneback]

Grrrr.... I'm feeling burned by lack of support of SSD media.

The other day, on my shoot, plans changed and I needed to buy a second SSD quick for the 7Q+. Found one at Samy's camera a mile away. Sent PA and, $200 later... popped it in. Not supported? Say what? OK, looked online and found out that Convergent Design is supporting hardly any SSDs and they really want you to buy their branded media.

OK, that is really not cool. This thing is a brick if I can't source a drive for it really quick. Not all shoots are planned out as well as we would like and things get thrown at us from left field. I need flexible, not proprietary.

I know, I know... SSD reliability concerns, yada-yada. I'm only recording 1080 or 2k.... you telling me that off the shelf media (in this case a Sandisk Extreme SSD) isn't good enough for that? Why not just unlock cheaper SSD's for 1080 or 2k? If I don't need full speed for 4k at least let me use it for lower resolutions!

Well, I sort it out that shoot and don't rely on the Odyssey 7Q+. Awesome! Get home, look up the SSD drives that work and order a Samsung EVO 850 512GB from Amazon. Pop it in... Not Supported! Are you f-ing kidding me? Evidently, there are different shades of Samsung EVO 850 drives. For f sake.

Here's the thing, Convergent Design: If you are going to be super picky over media you better make it A LOT CLEARER on your webpage what will work and what will not work. Make a point of telling someone like me (who could give a damn about the difference of SSD performance, I just need a drive that works) that there are different types of Samsung SSD's that look an awful lot like the ones you support. As it was, I had trouble just finding the info on your website that tells me what drives will work. Now, I realize that your website is unclear to begin with.

I am a long time user of Convergent Design stuff. I have had a Nano Flash since that little box came out. I always felt like it was a rushed to market product, but it was so new and useful, that I put up with the constant firmware updates, etc. Now, the Odyssey is not alone as a recorder and I am wondering if the Atomos or Sound Devices gear might be better thought out and convenient.

This is a rant, I know. But it is frustrating that this wonderful and useful device can't seem to get out of it's own way right now. Gah! So, I will return this drive and find another one. You know what would be amazing? If CD had an Amazon store that sold media for the lowest prices, so consumers knew we were getting a fair deal and CD would know that they are selling compliant media to end users.

One clear piece of info anyone can take from my rant:
The Samsung V-NAND SSD 850 EVO 500GB drive (model MZ-75E500) is not supported in the Odyssey 7q+.

Less clear info from CD website:
"Qualified 3rd party SSDs are:
Samsung 850 PRO 2.5” in 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, 1TB
Samsung 850 EVO 2.5” in 1TB

Manufacturer's Part Number:

Samsung 850 PRO 128GB (MZ-7KE128)
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB (MZ-7KE256)
Samsung 850 PRO 512GB (MZ-7KE512)
Samsung 850 PRO 1TB (MZ-7KE1T0)"

[John Mitchell]

"Well, I sort it out that shoot and don't rely on the Odyssey 7Q+. Awesome! Get home, look up the SSD drives that work and order a Samsung EVO 850 512GB from Amazon. Pop it in... Not Supported! Are you f-ing kidding me? Evidently, there are different shades of Samsung EVO 850 drives. For f sake."

Actually you failed to read the website correctly. The only supported non-pro Evo is the 1TB not the 500GB. That's because under testing it wasn't fast enough. (higher capacity SSD's are generally faster than the same model in a lower capacity)

I understand your frustration but a little research might have saved you a lot of pain. From the beginning CD's position was only to support their own branded drives (later they relented and qualified some very cheap Samsungs). If you buy something like a camera you should know what media it takes right? You can't just walk in and buy any SD card for a Black Magic Pocket or a PXW-FS5. It has to be an SDXC UHS I or II and class 3. Same with a recorder.

If you'd read the below thread which I started and Dan's thoughtful response you'd understand why CD have adopted this position.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...iscussion.html

I've seen the Shogun - it's OK but the O7Q+ can do much more. I'm not sure about the Sound Devices. There's probably a comparison page somewhere. The new Shogun probably more closely matches the HFR you can do on the Odyssey.

[Scott Stoneback]

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

Actually you failed to read the website correctly. The only supported non-pro Evo is the 1TB not the 500GB. That's because under testing it wasn't fast enough. (higher capacity SSD's are generally faster than the same model in a lower capacity)


I understand your frustration but a little research might have saved you a lot of pain. From the beginning CD's position was only to support their own branded drives (later they relented and qualified some very cheap Samsungs). If you buy something like a camera you should know what media it takes right? You can't just walk in and buy any SD card for a Black Magic Pocket or a PXW-FS5. It has to be an SDXC UHS I or II and class 3. Same with a recorder.

--- You are right, I failed to read the website correctly. That's my point... it is unclear even after reading what is supported. After eventually finding the part of the CD website that lists supported drives I still managed to get it wrong and I thought I was good to go with an EVO 850 drive.

It needs to be spelled out clearly for those of us without the time or resources to devote to finding the perfect drive. As it is on the website now... where i did try and do some research... it is confusing, unclear and hard to find. Hindsight, I see where the confusion lies... that there are several sizes of EVO 850 drives and ONLY the 1TB drive is supported. I get it. But, that is nuanced... and was an easy mistake for me (and likely others) to make.

Research, by the way, takes time and money, which I have in short supply. I'm paying a lot of money for CD products, I would like a product that works without a lot of fussy drive choosing. I have to pick and choose the research I do... which is a constant demand on my time as an owner-operator. (By the way, the CD branded drives are really expensive, twice the cost of the Samsungs... which is why I went with the much less expensive Samsungs).

You can't walk in to a store and buy whatever media and expect perfect results, true. But, on the fly, good enough is what I needed. Sandisk Extreme SSD's are surely fast enough for 1080 or 2k. What I didn't need is a blanket rejection by my Odyssey to record 1080 or 2k footage onto a decent enough drive. I wasn't needing 4k.

I don't think it is unreasonable to get the odyssey to work with lower speed drives when not shooting with 4k data demands. It seems like unlocking those drives and putting a disclaimer on the screen "this drive is unsupported and may not work properly" or "this drive only supports 2k data rates", etc, would be a good compromise. I was hosed in the field without being able to quickly obtain more media... so what good is the unit if I can't use it in the real world?

These are rhetorical questions, obviously... but I do think that there needs to be some clarity over what owners of this device need to make it work. It's a cool little box but it is complicated... so when I butt up against something like "media unsupported", I get frustrated at the seemingly ticky-tacky neediness just to get it to work.

Anyways, now I know....

[John Mitchell]

You can't walk in to a store and buy whatever media and expect perfect results, true. But, on the fly, good enough is what I needed. Sandisk Extreme SSD's are surely fast enough for 1080 or 2k. What I didn't need is a blanket rejection by my Odyssey to record 1080 or 2k footage onto a decent enough drive. I wasn't needing 4k.

I don't think it is unreasonable to get the odyssey to work with lower speed drives when not shooting with 4k data demands. It seems like unlocking those drives and putting a disclaimer on the screen "this drive is unsupported and may not work properly" or "this drive only supports 2k data rates", etc, would be a good compromise. I was hosed in the field without being able to quickly obtain more media... so what good is the unit if I can't use it in the real world?

These are rhetorical questions, obviously... but I do think that there needs to be some clarity over what owners of this device need to make it work. It's a cool little box but it is complicated... so when I butt up against something like "media unsupported", I get frustrated at the seemingly ticky-tacky neediness just to get it to work.

Let's start by agreeing that information could be more clearly laid out on the website (which is why I started this thread). Perhaps it should say 850 EVO 1TB model only. Or you could have jsut read this thread first ;)

You need to read Dan Keaton's response in the other thread. It will give you a better understanding of why CD made the choices they did. In a nutshell - they initially weren't going to qualify any third party drives, because they wanted users to have absolute certainty that mission critical work would both A) Be recorded without dropping frames and B) survive in the event of a power failure (common in battery operated devices).

So imagine this scenario - they qualify a cheaper Sandisk for 1080P only. The battery runs out while recording, or the power is bumped. Whatever - you've just lost your whole day's recording because the SSD file system is corrupt, because there's no safe shutdown on the Sandisk. Plus the Sandisk has the wrong controller to maintain the throughput required anyway.

I'm just saying that for professionals like us it makes perfect sense to narrow down the available choices to those that have been fully tested. For the reverse experience just go over to the BMD and ATOMOS forums and read some stories there.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

The main difference between the evo vs Pro, is the Pro can take more rewrites, twice as many before the drive fails.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Friends,

First, here are the SSD's we support:

Our traditional Convergent Design 2.5" SSD's in 256 GB, 512 GB and 1 TB sizes.

And

Samsung 850 Evo 1000 GB (commonly called 1 TB), this is a non-Pro model SSD).

Samsung 850 Evo Pro in 128 GB, 256 GB, 512 GB, and 1024 GB (Note, these are all Pro Models).



Second: There are many technical reasons why the list is limited to just these specific models.

These are the SSD's that we have thoroughly tested and have proven to work.

All of these meet our very high standards to ensure that you footage is not lost due to power failures, low voltage or other problems that we know can cause problems, such as removing an SSD while it is in use.

There are additional reasons that we specify these SSD's as they finish processing any footage that we have transferred to the SSD, even after power to the SSD has been lost.

This ensures that all data that we write to the SSD's is actually written to the correct locations on the SSD after any power loss.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,