C500 4K ProRes...

[Kevin Taylor]

Does 4K ProRes require connecting four SDI cables from the Canon C500?

[Dan Keaton]

Originally Posted by Kevin Taylor

Does 4K ProRes require connecting four SDI cables from the Canon C500?

The Canon C500 does not support sending 4K full uncompressed video over a HD-SDI 1.5G Quad Link.
Or over a HD-SDI 3G Dual Link.

It does support sending 4K Raw over HD-SDI 3G Single Link, up to 30 fps and HD-SDI 3G Dual Link up to 60 fps.

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Here is more information pertaining to our support of the C500:

We were able to support, in our initial 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ release, cameras that output 4K in full uncompressed format via HD-SDI 1.5G Quad Link interfaces. An example is the Sony F55.

And we were able to support the Sony FS700 since we had already implemented a high quality Sony 4K Raw to full uncompressed 4K deBayer.

While we currently support the Canon C500, and we have a deBayer routine, we need to significantly improve this deBayer in order to record 4K properly to 4K ProRes. Our current C500 deBayer is for viewing only.

The difference is that when we record 4K ProRes, from our internal 4K deBayer, we have to ensure that our deBayer is of the highest possible quality, since the recording is permanent. If the deBayer output was not great quality, then the resulting recording quality would suffer.

We will be offering the ability to record 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ, from the C500 sometime in a future firmware release.

Regretfully, I can not promise when this will occur, as it is always very difficult to predict when a complex programming task will be finished.

Respectfully,

[Kevin Taylor]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

We will be offering the ability to record 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ, from the C500 sometime in a future firmware release.

Regretfully, I can not promise when this will occur, as it is always very difficult to predict when a complex programming task will be finished.

Respectfully,

I'm stunned.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Kevin,

I am assuming that you are stunned because we can't provide you with a precise date that this will be ready.

When we provide an estimate of when a specific feature will be ready, we later get complaints that we missed our deadline and we get people saying that we promised that it will be ready by certain date.

So, I choose not to provide an estimate.

I hope you will understand, that creating a world-class 4K deBayer routine, that has to be performed in real-time, as we are recording the footage, is a very complex task.

Respectfully,

[Chris Bottoms]

Dan- I asked this same question on a old thread please disregard - you've answered here.

thx

[Kevin Taylor]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Kevin,

I am assuming that you are stunned because we can't provide you with a precise date that this will be ready.

Not really. The only dates that would be of real value to me would be "next week" or "never." And I don't mean that in a flippant way.

Hypothetically speaking, hearing "next week" could potentially effect a project in the works. Perhaps you're planning/budgeting for a shoot in three weeks. "Next week" might make you consider not committing to renting Camera X or Recorder Y because you're thinking 'next week" you'll get Firmware XYZ to test out.

Or say Canon announces/releases a C600 that records 4K RAW/Compressed onboard. Or for some reason you've got $6K burning a hole in your pocket and you think about maybe buying an URSA to play with. In those instances "next week" might come into play.

"Never" is another good one since that would guide all future camera platform purchase and rental decisions.

"Sometime in a future firmware release" is fine since it lets us know that you guys are working on it. And that's great but it holds very little value to any current or future production needs. Not many folks are going to make business decisions based on a "sometime" feature.

The "I'm stunned" crack was really mostly directed at me. I don't read instructions, fine print, or maps. So when I bought the C500 and 7Q from my local professional video/photo retailer, I left there under the false impression that I had purchased a complete solution and not a work in progress.

And that's not a dig against you guys. The 7Q is a great product at a great price. But this new (at least to me) practice of investing in a hardware solution that releases features throughout it's lifecycle is very odd. I've been an Autodesk customer for decades, so I'm used to it from the software side.

The "I'm stunned" crack was also a result of me getting all excited about the new firmware, downloading and installing it, and then spending an hour trying every menu and cable combination to get 4K ProRes working on the C500. I did all that silliness because I was sure it was user error on my part. I mean...I saw the following on some blog like No Film School:

New Features (Odyssey7Q Only)
4K/UHD Apple ProRes Recording: 4K (4096×2160) Apple ProRes 422(HQ) at 23.98, 25 and 29.97 fps UHD (3840×2160) Apple ProRes 422(HQ) at 23.98, 25 and 29.97 fps Input via 4x SDI with full playback & scrubbing

It didn't jump out to me that this was not a Canon feature. Because like I said, I don't read instructions, fine print, or maps.

And that last bit about "4x SDI" was what prompted me to ask that dumb question above about needing four cables.


*****************************************************************************

So as not to be a total whiner, I'll extend to you a couple of tips and/or suggestions:

Please check the copy in your "Canon C500 SETUP GUIDE" PDF available online. It has several references to other cameras like on page 6: "Connect FS700 3G-SDI output to Odyssey7Q SDIA input."


Next, be sure and remind your resellers to spend extra time with the Specs and Format Detail charts so they can be better informed about what's working and what's TBD with certain cameras and your product. You support so many different platforms and so many different flavors of CODECs and frame rates that it's hard for a consumer to keep it straight.


Lastly, I paid full price for my 7Q and the Canon Recording Option earlier this year. I think it's great you guys have been very successful with the 7Q and are now offering a limited time discount. I'm sure the new price will bring more folks to the party as will adding new camera support like GH4 and A7S.

My assumption is that you have limited bandwidth on the coding side (as any company would)...maybe it's one person or ten persons. Either way, when I see more stuff working on the FS700 than the C500, or that you're working on getting a new camera added, I don't think about how challenging getting a quality debayer off the Canon chip is. I just think that you love the FS700 more. I yearn for a world where CD has a dedicated team of brains focused on getting 4K ProRes working for us Canon nerds.

What I'm building up to is, would it help if we paid you extra to get things working? I bet if you sent an email or survey to every customer that purchased the Canon C500 Recording Option and asked them what they spend filling in the feature gaps of the 7Q...and ultimately what would they be willing to pony up to get 4K ProRes and 2K/HD 120fps...you might be surprised.

I can see that there might be some political fallout (i.e. nasty internet rants) from suddenly asking for a "PAID" feature upgrade or enhancement. But not from me. I'd happily drop $495 for those features. Maybe even $499 ;-)

Just thinking out loud. Thanks, Dan.

[Chris Bottoms]

It should say- 4K ProRes now available - but not for Canon C500.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Kevin,

We are actively working to add 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ for the Canon C500.

We will be releasing this as soon as possible.

Respectfully,

[Chris Bottoms]

YOUR CURRENT PRINT AD CLAIMS THAT THE 7Q RECORDS 4K PRORES FROM CANON C500. IT DOES NOT. unacceptable.

[Kevin Taylor]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Kevin,

We are actively working to add 4K Apple ProRes 422 HQ for the Canon C500.

We will be releasing this as soon as possible.

Respectfully,

Thanks, Dan.