Odyssey 7Q + FS700

[John Mitchell]

If you've not caught up then CD have posted various examples of the Odyssey 7Q with Sony NEX FS700 4K combination here:

Odyssey7Q | Sony FS700 Raw Option

Unfortunately they aren't too good - it looks like they were shot with the stock lens. This combination sounds so promising but on the basis of what I've downloaded from their site I'll hold off until I see some more professionally shot stuff and I see what kind of DR they can achieve...

And no people so you can't evaluate skin tones etc..

[Piotr Wozniacki]

I've been wondering (forgive me if naively) whether the FS700 (or any entry-level large sensor camera for that matter) makes s good candidate for 4k. The strength of the S35 sensor is in shallow DOF; for the 4K "wow" factor we need as much as possible in pin-point focus - otherwise what's the point of all this resolution?

Of course the top-level film cameras must (and do) offer both, but with the FS700 (and lenses at a comparable quality/price level) is both possible? To make DOF large we need to close the aperture - will the 4k resolution not be ruined by excessive CA, diffraction softness and alike?

What kind of lenses one needs to build a good 4k system around the FS700+Odyssey7Q?

I'm tending to think that with all the above in mind, smaller sensors cameras (like the new Sony Z100) make more sense for the prosumer market... Or am I wrong?

Piotr

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Of course the top-level film cameras must (and do) offer both, but with the FS700 (and lenses at a comparable quality/price level) is both possible? To make DOF large we need to close the aperture - will the 4k resolution not be ruined by excessive CA, diffraction softness and alike?
Piotr

I think you mean open the aperture? Closing the aperture would give us deep and not shallow depth of field. Opening the aperture in and of itself does not cause CA - that's a lens characteristic (often made worse by opening the aperture) and diffraction is caused by closing the iris too much - something we don't have to do on the FS700 because it has inbuilt ND filters. Diffraction is actually worse on smaller sensor cameras like the Z100, especially when the pixel sites get so small.

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

What kind of lenses one needs to build a good 4k system around the FS700+Odyssey7Q?

Well it depends what you want to do - there are some great fixed focal length lenses out there at prices commensurate with the FS700 - the bigger question is how does the sensor/recording system compare to some of the higher level cameras like the F55? Given that you can put the same glass in front of both cameras. According to Alastair Chapman, using the very expensive Sony system they compare very well. DR is not quite as good as we have a 12 bit as opposed to a 16 bit signal but that will not be a factor for a lot of shooters.

I guess a better question is will the Odyssey 7Q produce the same results as the Sony 4K adapter at a fraction of the cost? That is what I couldn't tell from the test shots posted on CD's website. They just aren't very well done. IMO

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

The strength of the S35 sensor is in shallow DOF; for the 4K "wow" factor we need as much as possible in pin-point focus - otherwise what's the point of all this resolution?
To make DOF large we need to close the aperture - will the 4k resolution not be ruined by excessive CA, diffraction softness and alike?

Piotr

Sorry Piotr - I think I misunderstood what you were saying in my first response. You are saying that the point of 4K is to have sharpness and therefore deep depth of field rather than shallow DOF of larger sensor cameras? Therefore a smaller sensor camera makes more sense?

Sharpness and resolution are unrelated to DOF. A 4K image and a 2K image can both have shallow DOF yet there is a lot more resolution in the 4K image. DOF is more a creative decision. Yes most lenses perform better especially in the corners stopped down a couple of stops, but certainly not enough to cause diffraction errors on an S35 sensor..and some lenses are still exceptional wide open.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

Sorry Piotr - I think I misunderstood what you were saying in my first response. You are saying that the point of 4K is to have sharpness and therefore deep depth of field rather than shallow DOF of larger sensor cameras? Therefore a smaller sensor camera makes more sense?

Sharpness and resolution are unrelated to DOF. A 4K image and a 2K image can both have shallow DOF yet there is a lot more resolution in the 4K image. DOF is more a creative decision. Yes most lenses perform better especially in the corners stopped down a couple of stops, but certainly not enough to cause diffraction errors on an S35 sensor..and some lenses are still exceptional wide open.

Yes John, now you understood me properly - sorry for my English :)

As to your answer: I'm not saying they are related (I mention that the highest-level cameras provide both for those creative decisions). My point is that with the FS700 /Odyssey 4k combo we're talking a rather entry level system. And further; I'm speculating that if someone is more after the 4k resolution than the S35 DOF "wow" factor, incoming an "all-in-one" camera system like the new Z100 or even AX1 might prove a better choice (considering price difference of entire working solutions and workflows, of course).

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Full 4k teaser:

FS700 Summertime. 4K footage from the FS700 and IFR5/R5 - YouTube

(though not on Odyssey)...

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Yes John, now you understood me properly - sorry for my English :)

As to your answer: I'm not saying they are related (I mention that the highest-level cameras provide both for those creative decisions). My point is that with the FS700 /Odyssey 4k combo we're talking a rather entry level system. And further; I'm speculating that if someone is more after the 4k resolution than the S35 DOF "wow" factor, incoming an "all-in-one" camera system like the new Z100 or even AX1 might prove a better choice (considering price difference of entire working solutions and workflows, of course).

The z100 is a 1/2.3 inch sensor and a single chip. So achieving shallow DOF on this camera will be difficult. And I have fears the quality won't be as good as even an EX1 which is at least a 3 chip camera.
So as a creative choice the FS700/Odyssey makes a lot more sense for narrative and drama. It is just a question of whether technically this combination holds up.

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Full 4k teaser: FS700 Summertime. 4K footage from the FS700 and IFR5/R5 - YouTube

(though not on Odyssey)...

Well resolution wise that is superior to anything I've seen off the FS700 through its own DSP...
Not sure what all the stepping was during pans - they were pretty slow so they should have been smooth..perhaps it just my internet connection

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Please forgive me if this has already been answered, but I'm seeing contradictory statements about the FS700/Odyssey7Q combo max framerate at 4k (up to 60fps on CD webpage, up to 30p in Adam Wilt's presentation). I take it CD's own specs is correct, right?

TIA,

Piotr

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Please forgive me if this has already been answered, but I'm seeing contradictory statements about the FS700/Odyssey7Q combo max framerate at 4k (up to 60fps on CD webpage, up to 30p in Adam Wilt's presentation). I take it CD's own specs is correct, right?

TIA,

Piotr

AFAIK 4K up to 60P compressed
2K RAW up to 240FPS..
No 4K RAW option

But in their table for the FS700 they do seem to indicate what Adam is saying

Odyssey7Q | OLED Monitor & Professional Recorder

So maybe the 4K @ 60P is only for the C500...