CF problem at DVinfo.net

Robin Probyn · July 7th, 2011, 06:51 PM

Hi there

Im away from the home now,but yesterday had a mystery situation.

CF card wouldn't mount on the desk top.. (Delkin 64 GB) and the reader got really hot.. the card reader wouldn't work with other CF cards.. so i presumed it was a reader problem.. gave the CF card to the dir who had a reader at home.. but he also reported that he couldnt get the card to mount on desk top..??????

Could a faultily card reader somehow screw up the card also ?

The reader had been fine the day before.. and the card had been fine about 2 weeks before..

I cant believe that the reader AND the card to happen to screw up at the same time !!

Was recording to tape.. but first problem at all with the Nanoflash work flow.. and now Im not that confident about it at all.

Sorry away till the 17th.. so I cant check the card playing out of the nanoflash.. etc

Thanks

Andy Mangrum · July 8th, 2011, 09:12 AM

Hello Robin,

If the card is not mounting then it is most likely something has happened to the Compact Flash Controller, First I would try to play the footage out of the nanoFlash, if you can do so, then recapture it onto another nanoFlash, Since within a short time the card will stop working completely,

If you do ever get the card mounted on a PC or Mac you can try to use Klix, it can recover all of our different file types, (MOV, MXF, MPG)

Another option is to send us the card but if the failure point is the controller, then we may not be able to recover the card.

Best Regards

Robin Probyn · July 8th, 2011, 05:56 PM

Thanks Andy

What exactly is the CF controller ? But then its also a mystery as to why my card reader also didnt work.. the small blu flashing light that usually comes up didnt show at all.. and then also wouldnt read any other cards.. but did get very hot very quickly.. to me this looked like the reader was the problem.

Could a card screw up the reader,or the reader a card.. was I so unlucky that the card AND the reader went bad at the same time.. first time any problems.. and ofcourse when I had to get to the airport for a flight !!!!

Thanks

Andy Mangrum · July 11th, 2011, 10:13 AM

Hello Robin,

If Both have failed at the same time it would probably be a coincidence,Of course anything is possible, but We have never seen such a situation in the past. But sometimes with USB readers You must unplug them and then re plug them it in into the same or different USB port or restart the computer, This may fix your USB problem that your encountering,

If neither of those work with a Different card that is recognized by other readers or the nanoFlash, Let us know And we will send you a new one,

Have you had any success from what I had mentioned in the previous post?

Best Regards

Robin Probyn · July 11th, 2011, 09:33 PM

Hi Andy

The card reader was not the USB one provided,but a fire wire one San disk extreme,which i ordered when I got the nanoflash from Rick Kelly.

Still away from home so cant check if the card will play out from the Nanoflash. But I did try that evening the card reader with another card,and it also wouldnt mount.This logically seemed that the card reader was the problem.. not such a big deal as I then presumed the card itself was fine and would read /mount ok from the directors card reader.But then he reported that the card wouldnt read from his reader either???

So implying that both card reader and card had died on me at exactly the same time.. which frankly I think is also impossible..

Hence much frustration and blow to the confidence of this set up.. 64GB denlkin card.. both card and reader have not had alot of wear and tear at all.. I think I would have used the card no more than 20 times at the most.Shit happens as they say,but when there is no logic to it I cant really use this system for professional work.. Iam sure its not the Nanoflash.. no error messages etc.. a card reader going is a pain as pretty expensive and hardly used.. but the CF cards going down that easy is really not good at all.
So Iam fairly pissed off at the moment.. and I had on a few occasions recorded just to CF cards with out incident.. but now I see I cant ever do that again.. which on the HDX900 is a pain as it means running tapes.. either re winds or new ones.. maybe time to get a tapeless camera so at least back up can be on a card also..

Thanks again for your time.. it appears Ive been unlucky ( nothing new there :) and that CF cards arent that robust..?? or that a going wrong card reader can corrupt a card,or visa versa ??

What is a compact flash controller? and why would it go wrong..

Dan Keaton · July 12th, 2011, 03:29 AM

Dear Robin,

From reading your posts, I understand your frustration and I am very sorry for your troubles.

1. It appears that the SanDisk Extreme Firewire 800 CompactFlash card reader has failed.

2. Whether it took out or caused the Delkin CompactFlash card to fail or not is unclear.

I have had one of my SanDisk Extreme Firewire 800 CompactFlash card readers to fail also, but I do not think it harmed any CompactFlash cards.

Please look into your reader with a Flashlight and check for bent pins.

Carrying the USB 2.0 CompactFlash card reader that we supply with the nanoFlashes is very cheap insurance (and it is light in weight).

Before you insert the card into your nanoFlash, please check if there is any debris in the connector sockets.

Every CompactFlash card consists of two main parts, the controller chip and the actual memory chips.

The controller chip is the interface between the memory chips and the CompactFlash card reader.

If you card reader has failed, it could (a remote possibility) damage a card, but I have never seen or heard that actually happen.

We will do our best to assist you.

Robin Probyn · July 13th, 2011, 09:09 AM

Thanks Dan

Yes I will from now on carry the USB reader around !! usually I down load at home so it I could have tried it.

I did look at the pins and couldnt see anything wrong.. just the card reader failing isnt so much of a problem although it was a few hundred bucks.. that would be pretty straight forward.. but the card dying is not good news.. not used much at all.. zero rough handling,exposure to dust/dirt etc.. maybe I have too much trust in a not totally pro only card format.. is there any card CF maker that has any guarantee ? there isnt a massive price difference now between a 64 GB CF card and a 64GB P2 card.I have never heard of a P2 card failing apart from human error..

I,ll try the card playing out from the nano when Im back home.. I did try already the card reader with another CF card and didint work and the reader got really hot.. so thats dead for sure.. but card as well at the same time.. I cant risk that on a paying job .. and to always run tape in the HDX900 is a bit of a pain.. esp if always using re wound tapes.. I think I,ll have to get a P2 camera and use the nano with that for XDCAM clients.. but always have the P2 as a back up..

Andy Mangrum · July 13th, 2011, 10:48 AM

Hello Robin,

It is very unfortunate to have a Compact Flash card fail, this is why we have been working with ProSoft since September of last year, to create a way of testing cards before a shoot, since this is the livelihood for so many people, and Compact Flash cards must be reliable,

I Hope that you would not lose all faith with your nanoFlash workflow or with using Compact Flash Cards, since they can be quite reliable, and this is an extremely rare occurance to have cards fail after just a short use, but just like anything there will be failures, and as we know it always occurs at the worst of times,

This is why we suggest for all customers to download KLIX and test their Compact Flash cards prior to a shoot, so that it can go forth with the least amount of issues,

Klix: Recovery Software for Digital Pictures, Photos & JPEG Images

As well as we do suggest for people to record to tape when possible especially if they do not have a Nexto or other field back up device, since this is cheap insurance considering that you will still have the shot,

As for the Compact Flash Cards, Almost all Manufactures have a Lifetime warranty on Compact Flash cards, So all you have to do is contact them and send it in, and you will receive a new replacement,

Of Course we hate to see this happen to any of our customers,But at the least you are only down during the shipping process of the replacement.

Hope This Helps

Best Regards

Robin Probyn · July 13th, 2011, 08:52 PM

Hi Andy

Thanks for your comments.Yes I appreciate I seem to been extra ordinarily unlucky on that day :( but yes was luckily running tape.Although I have to admit for some corp videp shoots in the past I have only recorded to the CF cards.without any problems..

Should I mail the card to Delkin.. or Rick at Nanoflash.net

And I will be down loading the card checking software to sure.. that should give some peace of mind.. maybe a stupid question .. but I is there a prefered CF maker.. or one that seems a bit above the others..?

Thanks again

Andy Mangrum · July 14th, 2011, 10:21 AM

Hello Robin,

There is nothing wrong with recording to just the nanoFlash, but simply its better to have a backup or tape backup so that you still have the shot, and obviously still get paid.

As for the Card I believe you would send the card to Delkin,

And as for Card Manufactures, They all have their advantages, and disadvantages, But I would stick to Delkin, Lexar, Trascend, or Axtremex since they have been reliable, and very price effective for performance.

Hope that Helps

Robin Probyn · July 14th, 2011, 05:02 PM

Many thanks again for your comments.Back in Tokyo in a few days,will get the card back from the directer and try playing out from the Nano.Although too late for the edit.

Sorry but do you have an address at Delkin that I should send the card to ?

Yes I guess backup is ofcourse the way to go.. just that tape makes it a bit more of a pain..

Thanks

Ronan Fournier · July 14th, 2011, 05:12 PM

Before sending the card back to Delkin to must have a RMA number, as it is explained here:
Delkin Return Policy

to do so you should contact the support service here:
Delkin Devices

Hope this helps!

Robin Probyn · July 14th, 2011, 05:55 PM

Ok thanks.. will check it out.. hope its not a pain in the backside :)

Andy Mangrum · July 15th, 2011, 10:21 AM

Hello Everyone,

Thank you Ronan for the provided information,

I would definitely suggest purchasing a Nexto device, so that you have a "Better Quality backup" as well as I would just keep reusing your existing tapes, and they would be a fail safe incase the Compact Flash card would fail, or your lost either of your other devices.

Best Regards

Robin Probyn · July 19th, 2011, 04:53 AM

Ok thanks.. Although I do like the to use shot put pro.. with Macbook.. there does seem to be a bent pin in the reader.. touching the one next to it.. this is fair enough if its been broken.. but would this some how take out the the whole card too ? the pin is not broken off.. no idea how the pin got bent ??

Got the Klix software too.. looks like a good insurance policy..

Love tapeless but now I see actually tape is pretty robust.. I had one cassette stuck in a camera (digibeta) easy to get out manually.. two times the condensation sensor went off in other camera,s F900R.. not bad in 20 yrs or so..

But ofcourse all in all tapeless is better.. I look forward to buying a camera with no moving parts !

Thanks for your help Andy..

July 7th, 2011, 06:51 PM	#1
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	CF problem Hi there Im away from the home now,but yesterday had a mystery situation. CF card wouldn't mount on the desk top.. (Delkin 64 GB) and the reader got really hot.. the card reader wouldn't work with other CF cards.. so i presumed it was a reader problem.. gave the CF card to the dir who had a reader at home.. but he also reported that he couldnt get the card to mount on desk top..?????? Could a faultily card reader somehow screw up the card also ? The reader had been fine the day before.. and the card had been fine about 2 weeks before.. I cant believe that the reader AND the card to happen to screw up at the same time !! Was recording to tape.. but first problem at all with the Nanoflash work flow.. and now Im not that confident about it at all. Sorry away till the 17th.. so I cant check the card playing out of the nanoflash.. etc Thanks

July 8th, 2011, 09:12 AM	#2
Andy Mangrum Sponsor: Convergent Design Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 166	Re: CF problem Hello Robin, If the card is not mounting then it is most likely something has happened to the Compact Flash Controller, First I would try to play the footage out of the nanoFlash, if you can do so, then recapture it onto another nanoFlash, Since within a short time the card will stop working completely, If you do ever get the card mounted on a PC or Mac you can try to use Klix, it can recover all of our different file types, (MOV, MXF, MPG) Another option is to send us the card but if the failure point is the controller, then we may not be able to recover the card. Best Regards __________________ Andy Mangrum, Tech Support Convergent Design, Inc

July 8th, 2011, 05:56 PM	#3
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Thanks Andy What exactly is the CF controller ? But then its also a mystery as to why my card reader also didnt work.. the small blu flashing light that usually comes up didnt show at all.. and then also wouldnt read any other cards.. but did get very hot very quickly.. to me this looked like the reader was the problem. Could a card screw up the reader,or the reader a card.. was I so unlucky that the card AND the reader went bad at the same time.. first time any problems.. and ofcourse when I had to get to the airport for a flight !!!! Thanks

July 11th, 2011, 10:13 AM	#4
Andy Mangrum Sponsor: Convergent Design Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 166	Re: CF problem Hello Robin, If Both have failed at the same time it would probably be a coincidence,Of course anything is possible, but We have never seen such a situation in the past. But sometimes with USB readers You must unplug them and then re plug them it in into the same or different USB port or restart the computer, This may fix your USB problem that your encountering, If neither of those work with a Different card that is recognized by other readers or the nanoFlash, Let us know And we will send you a new one, Have you had any success from what I had mentioned in the previous post? Best Regards __________________ Andy Mangrum, Tech Support Convergent Design, Inc

July 11th, 2011, 09:33 PM	#5
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Hi Andy The card reader was not the USB one provided,but a fire wire one San disk extreme,which i ordered when I got the nanoflash from Rick Kelly. Still away from home so cant check if the card will play out from the Nanoflash. But I did try that evening the card reader with another card,and it also wouldnt mount.This logically seemed that the card reader was the problem.. not such a big deal as I then presumed the card itself was fine and would read /mount ok from the directors card reader.But then he reported that the card wouldnt read from his reader either??? So implying that both card reader and card had died on me at exactly the same time.. which frankly I think is also impossible.. Hence much frustration and blow to the confidence of this set up.. 64GB denlkin card.. both card and reader have not had alot of wear and tear at all.. I think I would have used the card no more than 20 times at the most.Shit happens as they say,but when there is no logic to it I cant really use this system for professional work.. Iam sure its not the Nanoflash.. no error messages etc.. a card reader going is a pain as pretty expensive and hardly used.. but the CF cards going down that easy is really not good at all. So Iam fairly pissed off at the moment.. and I had on a few occasions recorded just to CF cards with out incident.. but now I see I cant ever do that again.. which on the HDX900 is a pain as it means running tapes.. either re winds or new ones.. maybe time to get a tapeless camera so at least back up can be on a card also.. Thanks again for your time.. it appears Ive been unlucky ( nothing new there :) and that CF cards arent that robust..?? or that a going wrong card reader can corrupt a card,or visa versa ?? What is a compact flash controller? and why would it go wrong..

July 12th, 2011, 03:29 AM	#6
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: CF problem Dear Robin, From reading your posts, I understand your frustration and I am very sorry for your troubles. 1. It appears that the SanDisk Extreme Firewire 800 CompactFlash card reader has failed. 2. Whether it took out or caused the Delkin CompactFlash card to fail or not is unclear. I have had one of my SanDisk Extreme Firewire 800 CompactFlash card readers to fail also, but I do not think it harmed any CompactFlash cards. Please look into your reader with a Flashlight and check for bent pins. Carrying the USB 2.0 CompactFlash card reader that we supply with the nanoFlashes is very cheap insurance (and it is light in weight). Before you insert the card into your nanoFlash, please check if there is any debris in the connector sockets. Every CompactFlash card consists of two main parts, the controller chip and the actual memory chips. The controller chip is the interface between the memory chips and the CompactFlash card reader. If you card reader has failed, it could (a remote possibility) damage a card, but I have never seen or heard that actually happen. We will do our best to assist you. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 13th, 2011, 09:09 AM	#7
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Thanks Dan Yes I will from now on carry the USB reader around !! usually I down load at home so it I could have tried it. I did look at the pins and couldnt see anything wrong.. just the card reader failing isnt so much of a problem although it was a few hundred bucks.. that would be pretty straight forward.. but the card dying is not good news.. not used much at all.. zero rough handling,exposure to dust/dirt etc.. maybe I have too much trust in a not totally pro only card format.. is there any card CF maker that has any guarantee ? there isnt a massive price difference now between a 64 GB CF card and a 64GB P2 card.I have never heard of a P2 card failing apart from human error.. I,ll try the card playing out from the nano when Im back home.. I did try already the card reader with another CF card and didint work and the reader got really hot.. so thats dead for sure.. but card as well at the same time.. I cant risk that on a paying job .. and to always run tape in the HDX900 is a bit of a pain.. esp if always using re wound tapes.. I think I,ll have to get a P2 camera and use the nano with that for XDCAM clients.. but always have the P2 as a back up..

July 13th, 2011, 10:48 AM	#8
Andy Mangrum Sponsor: Convergent Design Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 166	Re: CF problem Hello Robin, It is very unfortunate to have a Compact Flash card fail, this is why we have been working with ProSoft since September of last year, to create a way of testing cards before a shoot, since this is the livelihood for so many people, and Compact Flash cards must be reliable, I Hope that you would not lose all faith with your nanoFlash workflow or with using Compact Flash Cards, since they can be quite reliable, and this is an extremely rare occurance to have cards fail after just a short use, but just like anything there will be failures, and as we know it always occurs at the worst of times, This is why we suggest for all customers to download KLIX and test their Compact Flash cards prior to a shoot, so that it can go forth with the least amount of issues, Klix: Recovery Software for Digital Pictures, Photos & JPEG Images As well as we do suggest for people to record to tape when possible especially if they do not have a Nexto or other field back up device, since this is cheap insurance considering that you will still have the shot, As for the Compact Flash Cards, Almost all Manufactures have a Lifetime warranty on Compact Flash cards, So all you have to do is contact them and send it in, and you will receive a new replacement, Of Course we hate to see this happen to any of our customers,But at the least you are only down during the shipping process of the replacement. Hope This Helps Best Regards __________________ Andy Mangrum, Tech Support Convergent Design, Inc

July 13th, 2011, 08:52 PM	#9
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Hi Andy Thanks for your comments.Yes I appreciate I seem to been extra ordinarily unlucky on that day :( but yes was luckily running tape.Although I have to admit for some corp videp shoots in the past I have only recorded to the CF cards.without any problems.. Should I mail the card to Delkin.. or Rick at Nanoflash.net And I will be down loading the card checking software to sure.. that should give some peace of mind.. maybe a stupid question .. but I is there a prefered CF maker.. or one that seems a bit above the others..? Thanks again

July 14th, 2011, 10:21 AM	#10
Andy Mangrum Sponsor: Convergent Design Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 166	Re: CF problem Hello Robin, There is nothing wrong with recording to just the nanoFlash, but simply its better to have a backup or tape backup so that you still have the shot, and obviously still get paid. As for the Card I believe you would send the card to Delkin, And as for Card Manufactures, They all have their advantages, and disadvantages, But I would stick to Delkin, Lexar, Trascend, or Axtremex since they have been reliable, and very price effective for performance. Hope that Helps __________________ Andy Mangrum, Tech Support Convergent Design, Inc

July 14th, 2011, 05:02 PM	#11
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Many thanks again for your comments.Back in Tokyo in a few days,will get the card back from the directer and try playing out from the Nano.Although too late for the edit. Sorry but do you have an address at Delkin that I should send the card to ? Yes I guess backup is ofcourse the way to go.. just that tape makes it a bit more of a pain.. Thanks

July 14th, 2011, 05:12 PM	#12
Ronan Fournier Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Paris, France Posts: 201	Re: CF problem Before sending the card back to Delkin to must have a RMA number, as it is explained here: Delkin Return Policy to do so you should contact the support service here: Delkin Devices Hope this helps! __________________ http://www.songesdemoai.com/

July 14th, 2011, 05:55 PM	#13
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Ok thanks.. will check it out.. hope its not a pain in the backside :)

July 15th, 2011, 10:21 AM	#14
Andy Mangrum Sponsor: Convergent Design Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 166	Re: CF problem Hello Everyone, Thank you Ronan for the provided information, I would definitely suggest purchasing a Nexto device, so that you have a "Better Quality backup" as well as I would just keep reusing your existing tapes, and they would be a fail safe incase the Compact Flash card would fail, or your lost either of your other devices. Best Regards __________________ Andy Mangrum, Tech Support Convergent Design, Inc

July 19th, 2011, 04:53 AM	#15
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: CF problem Ok thanks.. Although I do like the to use shot put pro.. with Macbook.. there does seem to be a bent pin in the reader.. touching the one next to it.. this is fair enough if its been broken.. but would this some how take out the the whole card too ? the pin is not broken off.. no idea how the pin got bent ?? Got the Klix software too.. looks like a good insurance policy.. Love tapeless but now I see actually tape is pretty robust.. I had one cassette stuck in a camera (digibeta) easy to get out manually.. two times the condensation sensor went off in other camera,s F900R.. not bad in 20 yrs or so.. But ofcourse all in all tapeless is better.. I look forward to buying a camera with no moving parts ! Thanks for your help Andy..