Monitors And nanoFlash

[Ronald Jackson]

I use a Swit 4.8 " HD-SDI monitor with my nano and XLH1. Primarily for focussing given the well known deficiencies with the XLH1 viewfinder, but it is also useful from time to time to be able to frame, compose etc etc without having to stick oneself right in front of the camera, e.g when filming with the camera tripod mounted inside a vehicle.

The nano takes in the SDI signal from the XL and outputs an SDI signal to the monitor, no problem (except the lack of viewfinder info. which is another XL issue).

I need, or anyway would like a larger monitor. 4.8" is difficult with small subjects, e.g. a bird swimming in open water and Focus Assist ought to be very useful as well.

Looking at the Swit range, all their Waveform, Focus Assist, Peaking etc etc facilities ONLY come with an HDMI output. Thus I would be looking at SDI in and HDMI out from my nano.

I know this works with my desktop monitor, I can record to the nano via SDI and view this on the monitor via HDMI.

My questions is whether the HDMI output signal generated from the nano ex an SDI input will enable Focus Assist etc on the appropriate monitor ?

The UK company I am talking to don't have an answer despite being Swit and nanoFlash stockists,


Ron

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Ron,

1. Are you wondering about the "Focus Assist" built into the monitor?

Or

2. Are you speaking about the "Focus Assist" in the XL H1?

If 1, then this should work as the monitor is doing the "Focus Assist" and the nanoFlash gets the full quality image for recording purposes.

[Ronald Jackson]

Thank you Dan. Yes, point (1). The XLH1 Focus Assist/Peaking facility does not work on external monitors at least those taking a HDSDI signal from the camera. (I must admit I've never tried it on my Ikan monitor which takes a Component.)

I recently tried a "cheapo", well 300 quid, 7 inch HDMI monitor which did not have Peaking or similar facilities. This would not even produce an image from/via the nano when taking a HDSDI signal from the camera. "No Signal" was the message I kept getting.

The monitor would work when connected directly via HDMI to my HV20 and, as said, my desktop HDMI monitor works in conjunction with HDSDI from the camera to nano and HDMI from nano to monitor.

Therefore this made me suspicious of HDMI field monitors with XLH1 and the nanoFlash, so I would like to know whether anyone uses an HDMI field monitor with XL/nano and if so does Peaking work if available from the monitor.

I guess I could get myself and my kit down to Hemel Hempstead and see for myself, but 5 or 6 hours of train travel (more by car) there and back plus whatever the ticket costs.

Here's hoping DV Info can save me a bit of time and money!

Ron

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Ron,

With HDMi monitors, typically certain frame rates may not work.

You may need to try both settings of the E to E Direct option in the Video menu of the nanoFlash.

Please let us know what frame rate you are using that does not work.

[Ronald Jackson]

Thanks Dan. Not sure what "both settings of E to E direct" means but on my nano menu the "E to E Direct" box is un-ticked.

The camera settings are 25F, with the nano settings(1080) 25psf.


Ron

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Ron,

I want you to try both options, checked and unchecked, for the Video|E to E Direct menu option.

When the monitor does not work, please change the option to the opposite one, to see if the monitor starts to work.

[Ronald Jackson]

Thanks again Dan but I don't have the monitor with me anymore. I returned the "cheapo" one before starting this dialogue which was a mistake I now realise. But that monitor did not have peaking/focus assist which may be a v. useful albeit more expensive tool to have.

I am reluctant to order the Swit HDMI/Peaking monitor without knowing that it will work. I will try to get the retailer to have a go but (a) they don't stock XLH1s(nobody seems to anymore), (b) they have plenty of Sony EXs to try, and (C) last time I spoke they were right out of nanoFlashes.

Ron

ps to go return to H Hempstead direct is more than twice as expensive (and longer journey times) as my going via London, a geographically longer distance. Probably means nowt to you but may ring a few bells with other UK contributors. Still a few hours in London of more interest than same time sat in a train.

[Ronan Fournier]

Hello Ron,

I can't help you with the peaking feature. But I can confirm that you could use the SDI output of the XLH1 and the HDMI output of the Nano to connect a LCD monitor.
For crane shots, I used this monitor while recording on the Nano: Manhattan LCD HD071A

Unfortunatly I don't have it anymore and don't remeber if it had the peaking option (but I don't think so).

There is now a more recent and smaller model, which they say compatible with Canon batteries :
http://www.manhattanlcd.com/product_p/7120.htm

It seems it offers a focus assist, but I don't know how it works…

[Dave Sperling]

Hello Ronald,
As I understand it, peaking is essentially edge enhancement that can be turned on or off in certain monitors, or adjusted in certain viewfinders. (I use a NebTek 7" monitor that has a couple of levels of peaking). The peaking circuitry is a feature that the designers may (or may not) build into a given monitor, not something that is dependent on a certain type of signal from the camera. It should work equally well with HDSDI signals and HDMI signals.
That said, different monitors will display peaking differently, and I would highly advise that you try out any monitor that you are considering, particularly because peaking (and other focus assist options) are very much a 'personal preference' thing. Also, remember that when you have peaking on, the image in the monitor will not be completely representative of your lighting/ contrast -- so you might want to have a monitor where the peaking function can easily be turned on and off...
As to HDMI inputs (being in the US, frame rates are different here, but the concept is probably similar) -- I often use an older 19" Sony Bravia consumer tv (HDMI in) as a client monitor, while sending the HDSDI output from the Nano to a professional monitor on set. The HDSDI monitor will accept almost all frame rate options - not so for the HDMI consumer set. If I'm shooting a progressive format, such as 1080p30, I typically set the camera output is PsF, and the Nano is set to both 'record PsF as Progressive' and to 'E-to-E, since the Bravia will display a PsF signal but not a true progressive signal. Different monitors will have different display options, and so you will want to test the entire system to find the settings appropriate for you. It gets increasingly more complicated here with 24p and 3:2 pulldown removal issues, but at least you probably won't be dealing with that in your region..

[Ronald Jackson]

Thanks all. I'll certainly need to know "it works" before ordering a(nother) monitor. Seems to be some variance as Dave points out. Swit monitors ONLY provide Peaking etc etc with their HDMI models.

My nanoFlash is currently set to output 1080p25 which it does either via HDSDI connection to my (too small) 4.8" Swit or HDMI to my LG 22" desk monitor. I've not tried both simultaneously.

(Interesting comment from Dave re "pull-down". The LG Monitor shows input from the nano as "24p" whereas the actual signal is "25p", and my Epson 1080p projector has 24p as a default setting which however can be corrected to 25p via 2:2 pulldown. This presumably because all commercial
BDs are 24p whether in NTSC land or not and hardware manufacturers at the consumer end assume that all people want from their kit is to play BDs or games)

Ron

[Ryan Aivalis]

Ronald,

Might i suggest, if you're looking for a peaking enabled SDI monitor, consider one of ikan's newer monitors? the vx7e has peaking and false color on a 7" monitor--those features are supported through HDMI, HD-SDI, and component. I am not sure of your price range but at least wanted to let you know.

vx7e website: ikan VX7e - 7? HD-SDI Monitor w/ Peaking & False Color

Hope that helps :)
-Ryan