EX3 + nanoFlash

Steve Kalle · January 29th, 2011, 05:10 PM

After doing some greenscreen testing at 100Mb L-GOP, I noticed quite a bit of noise in both the 100Mb and 35Mb footage. Yes, I did read some of Piotr's very very long thread but I did not realize that the EX3 had this much noise at -3db. I even used all 56k lights (Diva 401s & Barfly 200s) because I read that there is more noise in the blue channel so 56k lamps would help in this area.

With the amount of noise I saw, I cannot see the EX-cams as being a great choice for chroma keying. Using Keylight in AE CS5, I ended up with quite a bit of fine detail being removed, such as hair, in order to get a good key because the noise created varying levels of green splotches on the greenscreen. I will test my EX1 later today and provide screen shots to show what I am seeing.

Is this amount of noise usual or unusual for an EX3?

However, this might be the perfect reason to get the F3 as I plan to use the greenscreen a lot for news shows.

Dan Keaton · January 29th, 2011, 05:49 PM

Dear Steve,

Could you please share you camera setup details?

This, in my opinion, will allow others with EX1's, EX1R's and EX3 to share their collective experience and there is a chance that someone may see a setting that would cause more noise then normal.

Of course, I assume that you are very experienced shooting with the EX3.

Adam Stanislav · January 29th, 2011, 06:16 PM

Quite frankly, when it comes to green screen, I would go with the highest bit rate you can get, so with the nF that would be 280 if your card is fast enough, 220 otherwise. You might get away with less with blue screen, but green screen requires extremely high quality video. It is a lot less work in post if you get the best out of it in production.

I would also highly recommend reading Jeff Foster's book The Green Screen Handbook before as much as touching a green screen, and Steve Wright's book Digital Compositing for Film and Video, Third Edition, before starting editing the green screen footage.

Steve Kalle · January 29th, 2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Steve,

Could you please share you camera setup details?

This, in my opinion, will allow others with EX1's, EX1R's and EX3 to share their collective experience and there is a chance that someone may see a setting that would cause more noise then normal.

Of course, I assume that you are very experienced shooting with the EX3.

Dan, you just made me realize that my Picture Profile settings might be adding noise; so, I will begin testing various settings.

So, does anyone know of the best PP settings in an EX3 to minimize noise?

FYI, I have been shooting with the EX3 for 2 months and an EX1 for 1.5 yrs.

PS Has anyone shot a green screen while using a Polarizer? If so, does it help or hurt anything?

And what about the Tiffen T1 IR filter for the EX1/3 and green screen?

Thanks

On a side note, with the CF reader included with the nanoFlash, am I required to 'eject' the CF card before removing from the reader - I am using Win 7 Pro x64 and SanDisk 32GB Extreme. My PC didn't like it last night when I removed the CF card from the reader; however, I didn't notice whether it 'took a dump' when I inserted a SxS card or when I removed the CF card as I did both within seconds of each other. (I use a Siig Expresscard to PCIe adapter for the SxS cards and have never had this problem before when inserting or removing SxS cards)

Dan Keaton · January 30th, 2011, 12:37 AM

Dear Steve,

On a Mac, the operating system likes to put some files onto a CompactFlash card when one uses the Eject Command or "Drag and Drop the Card Reader Icon to the Trash.

On a PC, Windows XP does not do this, as far as i know.

I do not know about Windows Vista.

Window's 7 writes a file to the CompactFlash card when the normal safely remove media commands are used.

Thus, for a Mac and Windows 7 an possibly Windows Vista, we recommend just pulling the card out (our pulling out the card reader). This prevents these unwanted files from being written to the CompactFlash cards.

These unwanted files cause us problems and when the card is put back into the nanoFlash one will set "Unrecognized CF Card" message.

When one just pulls the card from the computers, one will receive an error message on the Mac, just click ok as this process does not actually hurt anything.

Dave Chalmers · January 30th, 2011, 02:50 AM

Hi there,

I would start off from this standard 'BBC reference' setup for the EX3.
Feel free to tweak from here, but at least it gives you a known starting point.

http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/...X1_and_EX3.pdf

Regards

Dave

Dave Sperling · January 30th, 2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

PS Has anyone shot a green screen while using a Polarizer? If so, does it help or hurt anything?

I've found a polarizer helpful when shooting full length shots (including the feet). It allows me to dial down any direct reflective bounce I may get off the floor from the backlghts, which would otherwise make the key a little more difficult in the area of the feet, and this make the floor look 'greener' overall.

It can also be useful if there are reflective objects in the shot. (recently had to do a green screen with someone sitting at a smoked-glass-top desk. Cut the green bounce off the desk's surface way down with a pola filter.)

Of course adding a pola also means you may need more light for exposure...

Best,
Dave S.

Dan Keaton · January 31st, 2011, 08:43 AM

Dear Steve,

In your EX3, are you using Auto Gain, or Fixed Gain?

If you are using Fixed Gain, what gain setting are you using?

Page 48 and Page 55 of the EX3 manual discuss these items.

January 29th, 2011, 05:10 PM	#1
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	EX3 + nanoFlash - Lots of Noise After doing some greenscreen testing at 100Mb L-GOP, I noticed quite a bit of noise in both the 100Mb and 35Mb footage. Yes, I did read some of Piotr's very very long thread but I did not realize that the EX3 had this much noise at -3db. I even used all 56k lights (Diva 401s & Barfly 200s) because I read that there is more noise in the blue channel so 56k lamps would help in this area. With the amount of noise I saw, I cannot see the EX-cams as being a great choice for chroma keying. Using Keylight in AE CS5, I ended up with quite a bit of fine detail being removed, such as hair, in order to get a good key because the noise created varying levels of green splotches on the greenscreen. I will test my EX1 later today and provide screen shots to show what I am seeing. Is this amount of noise usual or unusual for an EX3? However, this might be the perfect reason to get the F3 as I plan to use the greenscreen a lot for news shows.

January 29th, 2011, 05:49 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Steve, Could you please share you camera setup details? This, in my opinion, will allow others with EX1's, EX1R's and EX3 to share their collective experience and there is a chance that someone may see a setting that would cause more noise then normal. Of course, I assume that you are very experienced shooting with the EX3. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 30th, 2011, 12:37 AM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Steve, On a Mac, the operating system likes to put some files onto a CompactFlash card when one uses the Eject Command or "Drag and Drop the Card Reader Icon to the Trash. On a PC, Windows XP does not do this, as far as i know. I do not know about Windows Vista. Window's 7 writes a file to the CompactFlash card when the normal safely remove media commands are used. Thus, for a Mac and Windows 7 an possibly Windows Vista, we recommend just pulling the card out (our pulling out the card reader). This prevents these unwanted files from being written to the CompactFlash cards. These unwanted files cause us problems and when the card is put back into the nanoFlash one will set "Unrecognized CF Card" message. When one just pulls the card from the computers, one will receive an error message on the Mac, just click ok as this process does not actually hurt anything. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 30th, 2011, 02:50 AM	#6
Dave Chalmers Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: GLASGOW, UK Posts: 71	Standard BBC Picture profile for EX3 Hi there, I would start off from this standard 'BBC reference' setup for the EX3. Feel free to tweak from here, but at least it gives you a known starting point. http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/...X1_and_EX3.pdf Regards Dave

January 31st, 2011, 08:43 AM	#8
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Steve, In your EX3, are you using Auto Gain, or Fixed Gain? If you are using Fixed Gain, what gain setting are you using? Page 48 and Page 55 of the EX3 manual discuss these items. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 29th, 2011, 06:16 PM	#3
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Quite frankly, when it comes to green screen, I would go with the highest bit rate you can get, so with the nF that would be 280 if your card is fast enough, 220 otherwise. You might get away with less with blue screen, but green screen requires extremely high quality video. It is a lot less work in post if you get the best out of it in production. I would also highly recommend reading Jeff Foster's book The Green Screen Handbook before as much as touching a green screen, and Steve Wright's book Digital Compositing for Film and Video, Third Edition, before starting editing the green screen footage.