nanoFlash and HV20

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

Totally agree. WIth plenty of light, the HV cams offer fantastic image quality, which is only further increased by the Nano.

But once the camera has to start using its gain, the image degrades fairly quickly. Unlike the XLH1S or EX1 where as you gain up, you still retain sharpness, color, etc., with the HV, the image sharpness, colors, etc. suffer much more in addition to the added noise from gain.

Michael,

Michael, this may be blasphemy, but I actually believe that an HV opened to 4 or 5.6, shooting outdoors and using the right amount of ND to prevent highlight blowout, would create an image that can rival an EX, XH or XL.

Those are very specific requirements that are impractical for many projects. But I think if you give it enough light, perferably daylight, and stay away from wide open or too closed, you can get a killer picture that is in the same league as the cameras in the group above it.

You own both, so you'd know better than me, but I don't think the above is as crazy as it sounds.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Friends,

I would like to share a story.

A friend and I were testing his HV30 with the nanoFlash, nothing serious, just informal testing.

The interview subject was in front of closed blinds, with some light coming through, and one CFL half exposed in a reading light fixture. (CFL = compact fluorescent lamp)

With the HV30, feeding a HDMI monitor, one would have normally expected the CFL details to be blown out.

But they were not. One could see all of the details of the CFL. I was quite surprised. So the HV30 handled the nicely lit subject and the highlight details of the CFL.

The HV30 actually outputs full 4:4:4 over HDMI!

(But, the nanoFlash has to extract 4:2:2 from the HDMI for the recording.)

[Garrett Low]

Originally Posted by Ronald Jackson

As there is no separate timecode output will I have to trigger either directly on the nano or via the CD remote cable which I happen to have? If so do I need a tape in the HV 20?

Ron

Ron, you don't have to have a tape in but you do have to turn off the power save mode the camera will shut down after 5 minutes. To trigger the nanoFlash either use the controls on the face or use a remote.

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Michael,

Michael, this may be blasphemy, but I actually believe that an HV opened to 4 or 5.6, shooting outdoors and using the right amount of ND to prevent highlight blowout, would create an image that can rival an EX, XH or XL.

Those are very specific requirements that are impractical for many projects. But I think if you give it enough light, perferably daylight, and stay away from wide open or too closed, you can get a killer picture that is in the same league as the cameras in the group above it.

You own both, so you'd know better than me, but I don't think the above is as crazy as it sounds.

I own an HV20 and an EX3 and unfortunately no matter how perfectly you setup the HV20 it can't even rival the EX3 in any situations. I've tried even with a carefully light scene, so I had full control of the lighting and set all controls for the HV20 so I was manually running it. I don't recall the exact f-stop setting but it was probably somewhere around the 5.6 range.

Sorry, there is still no substitute for better glass and superior processing.

-Garrett

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

...

The HV30 actually outputs full 4:4:4 over HDMI!

(But, the nanoFlash has to extract 4:2:2 from the HDMI for the recording.)

I'm actually not that surprise by this. While HDMI is not a robust as HD-SDI, it has much wider bandwidth. I believe the latest HDMI specs can handle even 1080 60p 4:4:4.

Do you have any idea if this a peculiarity of the HV-30 or Canon camcorders or if other makers are also outputting 4:4:4 out the HDMI? Just curious.

Thanks Dan.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Peter,

Sorry, but I don't know.

I just learrned directly from Canon that the HV30 that the output is 4:4:4.

So, I assume that the HV20 and HV40 do the same.

I

[Michael Galvan]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Michael,

Michael, this may be blasphemy, but I actually believe that an HV opened to 4 or 5.6, shooting outdoors and using the right amount of ND to prevent highlight blowout, would create an image that can rival an EX, XH or XL.

Those are very specific requirements that are impractical for many projects. But I think if you give it enough light, perferably daylight, and stay away from wide open or too closed, you can get a killer picture that is in the same league as the cameras in the group above it.

You own both, so you'd know better than me, but I don't think the above is as crazy as it sounds.

Certainly no blasphemy here, lol. And not crazy sounding at all...

The HV actually seems to lock itself at 5.6 for as long as it possibly can in bright conditions when you shoot in TV mode to lock the shutter. It's image really is quite nice, and close to the same league as cameras above it, but I still wouldn't call it equal. The overall PQ of the pro cams are still better, mainly attributable to the level of control over image parameters. Just the ability to adjust individual RGB matrices in the XL alone is just one example. And the lens and 3CCD system still gives a characteristically richer color scheme. The HV's color from the 1 CMOS still feels slightly muted and dynamic range is more limited. But yes, in given ideal conditions, the HV cams shine and I feel they still rival the best out there in the consumer world.

[Ronald Jackson]

Extremely belatedly, the thought of having to pay out £1000 for a new small camcorder plus the purchase of a tripod bracket to hold both cam and Nano being the spur, I actually tried just now connecting my HV20.

Settings : Trigger - Record Button

Source - HDMI

Timecode- Internal


All I get with cam in record mode, without a tape and Record Button on Nano pressed is the message:

"Still Awaiting Source". The HDMI cable I'm using works okay the other way i.e. when connected to HDMI "out" on the Nano and "in" on my monitor.

Would appreciate some suggestions as to what is wrong with my set-up. Will be v. pleased if/when I've proved to my own satisfaction that my Nano has (substantially) upgraded another of my old Canon camcorders,

Ron

[Ronan Fournier]

Ronald, beware of false contact with HDMI connections. It happens often unfortunatly.

Also, you should look that, in the HV20 menus, the HDMI output is ON and perhaps 1080i resolution need to be selected (on Nano too)… I'm not sure that these menus options exist on the HV20 but you should have a look there.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Ron,

You should be able to record from the Canon HV20 to the nanoFlash.

Without going into record mode, when properly connected and setup, you should see the frame rate display on the bottom left of the nanoFlash.

And, if you have System|Trigger set to Record Button or Record&Remote, you should be able to press Record and have it record (Of course System|Source must be set to HDMI).

Do you have a cable to test the HDMI output from the HV20 to your HDMI Television?

[Ronald Jackson]

Thank you Dan and Ronan.

Well, it just worked without me changing anything! I switched the camera on, then the Nano, then pressed to Record button and voila!

Pitch dark here so will have another go tomorrow in daylight. Fingers crossed, maybe , as mentioned above, there needs to be a set procedure for switching everything on,


Ron

[Ronald Jackson]

Stopped working!

Is there a list of small current camcorders that are known for sure to work with a Nano?


Ron

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Ron,

Almost any camcorder with an HDMI output can be used with the nanoFlash.

It sounds you have have a HDMI cable problem.

Or your HDMI output from you camera may be bad.

Do you have a cable that allows you to connect your HV20 directly to an HDMI Television?
If so, you could easily test the camera end.

Does the nanoFlash say "No SRC" at the bottom left.

If so, then the nanoFlash is not receiving a proper signal from your HV20 (if all of the settings are correct, which they seem to be since you had it working for a while.)

[Garrett Low]

Ron,

I've got an HV20 and nanoFlash and have used it many times to record. One thing that I noticed is that the boot order sometimes makes a difference. I can't remember what exactly I do but I believe I fire up the nanoFlash first then turn on the camera. If that doesn't work do it the other way around.

I'm not sure why this makes a difference but it just does for me.

-Garrett

[Ronald Jackson]

Dan,

The HDMI cables ( I have three different ones) work okay when connecting the Nano to my monitor, and I can connect the HV20 to a monitor using "normal" HDMI cables.

I think therefore it has to be said that the HV20 and Nano does not work consistently enough to be considered a reliable combination.


Perhaps I should start another thread asking "what small camcorders can be recommended for use with a nanoFlash?".

Ron

[Alan Emery]

Hi Ron,

I have an HV40 that I tested with the nanoflash a while back. I recall that the order of connecting the cable , turning on the camera, and turning on the nanflash were important. If you have everything connected and turned on and the nanoflash is not seeing the source, try switching the camera off then on, or the nanoflash off then on, or unplugging and re-plugging the cable in. The nanoflash does not automatically see the HV40 source all the time. I remember that once I figured it out it worked.

The resulting images are better than the HV40 all by itself, but in low light or really bright light the images are not so great.

Hope that helps,
Alan