nanoFlash and HV20

Dan Keaton · January 20th, 2011, 07:19 AM

Dear Friends,

I was not aware that we had an issue in which one needs to boot up the nanoFlash last.

We will check this in our lab.

We have an HV30 and other cameras, but we do not have an HV20.

But, I think the HV30 and the nanoFlash may work the same.

So, we will start testing with the HV30 to see if the startup sequence is important.

We would like to resolve this.

Rob Dommermuth · January 20th, 2011, 08:22 AM

Hi Alan,

My HV20 did work with the nano for a some time and that was exactly

what I had to do, some times I would have to shut the Nano off and then restart

Other times I would start the Nano on first, them start the camera.

If I changed any settings on the Nano, I would have to start the process all over again.

Now no matter what I do the Nano will not see the HV20 .

So in conclusion I think its lights out for this HV20, It probably time to upgrade anyway.

Thanks,
Alan and also Dan for your suggestions

Dan Keaton · January 20th, 2011, 08:31 AM

Dear Rob,

I do not know if it is the nanoFlash or your camera.

It is interesting that the nanoFlash works fine with another camera.

So, I would not get rid of your HV20 until we resolve this issue.

If you want to send it to us, we could test it for you.

Rob Dommermuth · January 20th, 2011, 08:33 AM

Hi Peter,

I have never used the HV20 and the EX1 footage in the same project.

But I can tell you that the quality is there, as long as you record at 100mb.

Although Canon and Sony treat color differently, and the HV20 is brighter.

But with some color and gamma adjustments, you could make it work.

Rob Dommermuth · January 20th, 2011, 08:42 AM

Hi Dan,

I would be more then happy to send the HV20 to you.

Just tell me where to send it.

Thanks

Garrett Low · January 20th, 2011, 11:36 AM

I have mixed footage from my HV20 + NF with footage from my EX3. You can make it close but there is still a very noticeable difference. For the money, the HV20/30/40 is an exceptional camera. Even though it is an HDV camera it still can give a better picture than many of the newer AVCHD cameras. When paired with the NF even at 50Mbps it looks really good. The key is to not let the camera do any of the thinking. Set your shutter and exposure manually and use manual focus if at all possible.

But, at it's best, the HV20 with the NF can't come close to even the native 35Mbps picture you can get from the EX cameras. The EX's picture is cleaner, sharper, has more depth, captures better color and it just has more dynamic range. Motion on the EX is way better too. The EX can be made to look more like film where as the HV20 still has that video look, even when captured with the NF. You can be very impressed when looking at the HV20+NF footage alone, but when compared to the EX footage and especially when placed side by side, it's not even close.

So, when have I mixed footage? I use my HV20 as a backup cam as well as when I want to be very discrete. It is nice to be holding what is really a consumer/family cam but when plugged into the NF it makes a big difference, especially in post. I've also used it when doing gorilla documentary shooting. I just purposefully make sure the picture is different looking enough from the EX3 so that no one would think we're trying to match cameras when cutting. And, the great thing about recording to the NF is it removes the pulldown for me when shooting 24p.

-Garrett

Ronald Jackson · January 20th, 2011, 02:43 PM

Interesting comments above.

How does HV20 footage via a nano compare with XLH1 footage via the same route?
HDV footage is better on the XLH1 than it is on a HV20 as one might expect, but not horrendously different.

Presumably the differences are of the same magnitude whether with/without a nano.

Ron

Dan Keaton · January 20th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Daer Friends,

In my opinon, the HV20, HV30, and HV40 are wonderful cameras and produce a very nice image, when there is adequate light.

However, when comparing these cameras to more professional cameras, one has to consider that the more professional cameras have better controls, are better in low light, and have better control over the images.

Michael Galvan · January 21st, 2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Jackson

Interesting comments above.

How does HV20 footage via a nano compare with XLH1 footage via the same route?
HDV footage is better on the XLH1 than it is on a HV20 as one might expect, but not horrendously different.

Presumably the differences are of the same magnitude whether with/without a nano.

Ron

I've shot stuff with both my HV40/Nano and my XLH1S/Nano.

And yes, the HV40/Nano stuff looks really nice, but the XLH1S/Nano is a league better (better colors, dynamic range, sharpness, etc). Its what Dan mentions... you have far, far more control over the image parameters (knee, gammas, black range, RGB matrices, and many more that are just not possible to adjust with the HV cams), plus the pro camera is just a flat out higher quality image maker to begin with. Despite the use of the Nano, the HV footage still exhibits the color characteristics of its one sensor, which always looks muted compared to the XLH1S's footage from its 3CCD array (and I'm sure the optics are playing a role here too).

But all things considered, the HV cams are exceptional for the price. There is quite a noticeable difference between the HDV and Nano footage from the HV cam, especially in terms of sharpness.

Garrett Low · January 21st, 2011, 05:22 PM

Though the HV20/30/40 + NF gives a very impressive image, when compared to the XL H1 series of cameras there would be no comparison. Just the improvement in glass alone will make big enough difference that you could never get the HV series to rival it.

But, I've shot with my HV20+NF for clients because it was the right instrument for the situation, and they were more than happy with it. Properly set up, it can look very very good.

-Garrett

Ronald Jackson · January 22nd, 2011, 04:02 AM

"You can't get a quart out of a pint pot" as they used to say and also "horses for courses".

My HV20 plus nano should be handy when I want some cutaway footage, location shots and the like when videoing birds with big lenses attached to XLH1.

Will need to develop some skills in quickly re-setting nano for HV20 and vice versa with XLH1.

Ron

Dan Keaton · January 22nd, 2011, 06:42 AM

Dear Ron,

In my opinion, the key to getting good footage out of the Canon HV series is having enough light.

At lower light levels, the quality of the image will drop off.

Michael Galvan · January 22nd, 2011, 09:27 AM

Totally agree. WIth plenty of light, the HV cams offer fantastic image quality, which is only further increased by the Nano.

But once the camera has to start using its gain, the image degrades fairly quickly. Unlike the XLH1S or EX1 where as you gain up, you still retain sharpness, color, etc., with the HV, the image sharpness, colors, etc. suffer much more in addition to the added noise from gain.

Dan Keaton · January 22nd, 2011, 11:04 AM

Dear Friends,

To add to Michael comments:

While our eyes work very well in normal indoor lighting, this level of lighting is not adequate for many cameras.

This comes as a surprise to many when they first use cameras (camcorders), and they sometimes wonder why their images are not a good as they expected.

These same cameras may work very well in bright sunlight and other lighting conditions, just not when the light level is low.

Ronald Jackson · January 23rd, 2011, 03:39 AM

I generally have ND filter on my HV20 as I always use it outdoors, and find the images otherwise can be a bit harsh. As there is no separate timecode output will I have to trigger either directly on the nano or via the CD remote cable which I happen to have? If so do I need a tape in the HV 20?

Ron

ps before leaving the world of old English proverbs relating to "reality over hope" how about: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".

January 20th, 2011, 07:19 AM	#16
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, I was not aware that we had an issue in which one needs to boot up the nanoFlash last. We will check this in our lab. We have an HV30 and other cameras, but we do not have an HV20. But, I think the HV30 and the nanoFlash may work the same. So, we will start testing with the HV30 to see if the startup sequence is important. We would like to resolve this. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 20th, 2011, 08:31 AM	#18
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Rob, I do not know if it is the nanoFlash or your camera. It is interesting that the nanoFlash works fine with another camera. So, I would not get rid of your HV20 until we resolve this issue. If you want to send it to us, we could test it for you. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 20th, 2011, 11:36 AM	#21
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	I have mixed footage from my HV20 + NF with footage from my EX3. You can make it close but there is still a very noticeable difference. For the money, the HV20/30/40 is an exceptional camera. Even though it is an HDV camera it still can give a better picture than many of the newer AVCHD cameras. When paired with the NF even at 50Mbps it looks really good. The key is to not let the camera do any of the thinking. Set your shutter and exposure manually and use manual focus if at all possible. But, at it's best, the HV20 with the NF can't come close to even the native 35Mbps picture you can get from the EX cameras. The EX's picture is cleaner, sharper, has more depth, captures better color and it just has more dynamic range. Motion on the EX is way better too. The EX can be made to look more like film where as the HV20 still has that video look, even when captured with the NF. You can be very impressed when looking at the HV20+NF footage alone, but when compared to the EX footage and especially when placed side by side, it's not even close. So, when have I mixed footage? I use my HV20 as a backup cam as well as when I want to be very discrete. It is nice to be holding what is really a consumer/family cam but when plugged into the NF it makes a big difference, especially in post. I've also used it when doing gorilla documentary shooting. I just purposefully make sure the picture is different looking enough from the EX3 so that no one would think we're trying to match cameras when cutting. And, the great thing about recording to the NF is it removes the pulldown for me when shooting 24p. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

January 20th, 2011, 04:12 PM	#23
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Daer Friends, In my opinon, the HV20, HV30, and HV40 are wonderful cameras and produce a very nice image, when there is adequate light. However, when comparing these cameras to more professional cameras, one has to consider that the more professional cameras have better controls, are better in low light, and have better control over the images. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 21st, 2011, 05:22 PM	#25
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Though the HV20/30/40 + NF gives a very impressive image, when compared to the XL H1 series of cameras there would be no comparison. Just the improvement in glass alone will make big enough difference that you could never get the HV series to rival it. But, I've shot with my HV20+NF for clients because it was the right instrument for the situation, and they were more than happy with it. Properly set up, it can look very very good. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

January 20th, 2011, 08:22 AM	#17
Rob Dommermuth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 26	Hi Alan, My HV20 did work with the nano for a some time and that was exactly what I had to do, some times I would have to shut the Nano off and then restart Other times I would start the Nano on first, them start the camera. If I changed any settings on the Nano, I would have to start the process all over again. Now no matter what I do the Nano will not see the HV20 . So in conclusion I think its lights out for this HV20, It probably time to upgrade anyway. Thanks, Alan and also Dan for your suggestions

January 20th, 2011, 08:33 AM	#19
Rob Dommermuth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 26	Hi Peter, I have never used the HV20 and the EX1 footage in the same project. But I can tell you that the quality is there, as long as you record at 100mb. Although Canon and Sony treat color differently, and the HV20 is brighter. But with some color and gamma adjustments, you could make it work.

January 20th, 2011, 08:42 AM	#20
Rob Dommermuth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 26	Hi Dan, I would be more then happy to send the HV20 to you. Just tell me where to send it. Thanks

January 20th, 2011, 02:43 PM	#22
Ronald Jackson Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southport, United Kingdom Posts: 723	Interesting comments above. How does HV20 footage via a nano compare with XLH1 footage via the same route? HDV footage is better on the XLH1 than it is on a HV20 as one might expect, but not horrendously different. Presumably the differences are of the same magnitude whether with/without a nano. Ron

January 22nd, 2011, 04:02 AM	#26
Ronald Jackson Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southport, United Kingdom Posts: 723	"You can't get a quart out of a pint pot" as they used to say and also "horses for courses". My HV20 plus nano should be handy when I want some cutaway footage, location shots and the like when videoing birds with big lenses attached to XLH1. Will need to develop some skills in quickly re-setting nano for HV20 and vice versa with XLH1. Ron

January 22nd, 2011, 06:42 AM	#27
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Ron, In my opinion, the key to getting good footage out of the Canon HV series is having enough light. At lower light levels, the quality of the image will drop off. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 22nd, 2011, 09:27 AM	#28
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Totally agree. WIth plenty of light, the HV cams offer fantastic image quality, which is only further increased by the Nano. But once the camera has to start using its gain, the image degrades fairly quickly. Unlike the XLH1S or EX1 where as you gain up, you still retain sharpness, color, etc., with the HV, the image sharpness, colors, etc. suffer much more in addition to the added noise from gain. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

January 22nd, 2011, 11:04 AM	#29
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, To add to Michael comments: While our eyes work very well in normal indoor lighting, this level of lighting is not adequate for many cameras. This comes as a surprise to many when they first use cameras (camcorders), and they sometimes wonder why their images are not a good as they expected. These same cameras may work very well in bright sunlight and other lighting conditions, just not when the light level is low. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 23rd, 2011, 03:39 AM	#30
Ronald Jackson Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southport, United Kingdom Posts: 723	I generally have ND filter on my HV20 as I always use it outdoors, and find the images otherwise can be a bit harsh. As there is no separate timecode output will I have to trigger either directly on the nano or via the CD remote cable which I happen to have? If so do I need a tape in the HV 20? Ron ps before leaving the world of old English proverbs relating to "reality over hope" how about: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".