What is the absolute highest quality setting? at DVinfo.net

Buck Forester · January 6th, 2011, 01:40 PM

I'm about ready to take the NanoFlash plunge. I've read quite a bit here and it gets confusing about what is the highest quality to use, Long-GOP or I-frame. I understand Long-GOP is by far more efficient. But for certain projects I'm not concerned about efficiency or storage requirements, I just want the highest quality possible from my EX1. I'm sure I'll shoot Long-GOP 100 Mbps most of the time, but for a documentary I'm working on I'd like to squeeze every ounce of quality for possible big screen showing. I edit on a Mac Pro with FCP. Is the NanoFlash highest data rate on I-frame a better choice if ONLY quality was a factor, not efficiency or storage requirements? I know Long-GOP is great, I've even read 'there's not much difference', but if one was to turn the ketchup bottle upside down and spank the last drops out, would those last drops of quality be Long-GOP or I-Frame? Gracias.

Rafael Amador · January 6th, 2011, 05:04 PM

Hi Buck,
Is not only about data-rate/GOPs-Interframe; is also about the kind of scene you are filming.
Movement, noise and detail complicates the compression.
We have herd of complains on 100Mbps LGOPs on certain situations; but never complains at 220/280Mbps.
rafael

Dan Keaton · January 6th, 2011, 05:39 PM

Dear Buck,

Our 280 Mbps I-Frame Only is our highest quality option.

Buck Forester · January 6th, 2011, 05:42 PM

Heard straight from the top. Cool. Thanks Dan!

Buck Forester · January 6th, 2011, 07:32 PM

Rafael, thanks to you too, for some reason your post did not show up for me to see until after Dan's even though you posted before him. I will shoot I-Frame 280 on my most demanding projects. Gracias.

Alister Chapman · January 7th, 2011, 11:37 AM

Just remember that for 280Mb/s you will need very fast 600x CF cards which tend to be expensive and you'll need a lot of them as you will be filling them up 3x faster than at 100Mb/s Long GoP.

Perhaps you could use the new Axtremex 600x UDMA cards at $489 for 64Gb. Compare that to a Transcend UDMA 64Gb card certified for 220Mb/s at $179 and you can see that you have to pay quite a premium for 280Mb/s.

100Mb/s long GoP is extremely good. I doubt you would ever see the difference between that and 280Mb/s I frame for the vast majority of applications.

Dan Keaton · January 7th, 2011, 11:58 AM

Dear Friends,

Thanks Alister.

While the Axtremex 128 GB 600x CompactFlash card is $489.95 and works up to 220 Mbps in the nanoFlash, the new SanDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB card, which is due out in a few months, has a list price of $1,499.99.

The Axtremex costs more than two Transcend 64 GB 400x cards, but less than two of most any other qualified CompactFlash card for the nanoFlash.

Of course a 128 GB CompactFlash card is not needed by everyone, but it is certainly nice to be able to record for twice the normal nanoFlash uninterrupted record times when necessary.

Recording uninterrupted for over 2 hours at 220 Mbps is certainly nice. This would use two 128 GB cards.

Axtremex also has a 64 GB 600x+ card which has been qualified for 280 Mbps.

Garrett Low · January 7th, 2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Of course a 128 GB CompactFlash card is not needed by everyone, but it is certainly nice to be able to record for twice the normal nanoFlash uninterrupted record times when necessary.

Recording uninterrupted for over 2 hours at 220 Mbps is certainly nice. This would use two 128 GB cards.

Yes but with the new Firmware and hotswap capabilities, you can get an almost unlimited record time by swapping cards as they get filled so 4x64GB cards works great for me.

-Garrett

Dan Keaton · January 7th, 2011, 01:21 PM

Dear Garrett,

I think it is great that we now have Hot Swapping.

Thus, if one is there to perform the hot-swapping, then all is good, provided one does it correctly.

The 128 GB Cards have their place, especially if the nanoFlash is unattended, or inaccessable.

Examples, the Hawaii Undersea Research Lab uses Flash XDR's in their submarines. They can now record for twice the amount of time without having to expect the researchers from switching cards.

UAV's could now record for over 10 hours at Broadcast Quality.

At seminars or events, one can record, at high quality without changing cards.

I agree completely that multiple 64 GB cards may be the answer for some applications.

Garrett Low · January 7th, 2011, 01:31 PM

Dan, I totally agree that the larger 128GB cards have their place. Single op shoots of long events I could see them as a necessity. I do really appreciate the ability to have the hot swap feature.

I'm hoping that one of the byproducts of the release of the 128GB cards is that it will push the price for the 64GB cards down.

-Garrett

Rafael Amador · January 7th, 2011, 02:27 PM

Buck,
I agree with Alister Chapman.
You should start by testing 220Mbps vs 280 Mbps recording, and see if is really worth to go 280 Mbps.
Never need here yet.
rafael

January 6th, 2011, 01:40 PM	#1
Buck Forester Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 230	What is the absolute highest quality setting? I'm about ready to take the NanoFlash plunge. I've read quite a bit here and it gets confusing about what is the highest quality to use, Long-GOP or I-frame. I understand Long-GOP is by far more efficient. But for certain projects I'm not concerned about efficiency or storage requirements, I just want the highest quality possible from my EX1. I'm sure I'll shoot Long-GOP 100 Mbps most of the time, but for a documentary I'm working on I'd like to squeeze every ounce of quality for possible big screen showing. I edit on a Mac Pro with FCP. Is the NanoFlash highest data rate on I-frame a better choice if ONLY quality was a factor, not efficiency or storage requirements? I know Long-GOP is great, I've even read 'there's not much difference', but if one was to turn the ketchup bottle upside down and spank the last drops out, would those last drops of quality be Long-GOP or I-Frame? Gracias.

January 6th, 2011, 05:39 PM	#3
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Buck, Our 280 Mbps I-Frame Only is our highest quality option. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 7th, 2011, 11:37 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Just remember that for 280Mb/s you will need very fast 600x CF cards which tend to be expensive and you'll need a lot of them as you will be filling them up 3x faster than at 100Mb/s Long GoP. Perhaps you could use the new Axtremex 600x UDMA cards at $489 for 64Gb. Compare that to a Transcend UDMA 64Gb card certified for 220Mb/s at $179 and you can see that you have to pay quite a premium for 280Mb/s. 100Mb/s long GoP is extremely good. I doubt you would ever see the difference between that and 280Mb/s I frame for the vast majority of applications. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 7th, 2011, 11:58 AM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, Thanks Alister. While the Axtremex 128 GB 600x CompactFlash card is $489.95 and works up to 220 Mbps in the nanoFlash, the new SanDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB card, which is due out in a few months, has a list price of $1,499.99. The Axtremex costs more than two Transcend 64 GB 400x cards, but less than two of most any other qualified CompactFlash card for the nanoFlash. Of course a 128 GB CompactFlash card is not needed by everyone, but it is certainly nice to be able to record for twice the normal nanoFlash uninterrupted record times when necessary. Recording uninterrupted for over 2 hours at 220 Mbps is certainly nice. This would use two 128 GB cards. Axtremex also has a 64 GB 600x+ card which has been qualified for 280 Mbps. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia Last edited by Dan Keaton; January 7th, 2011 at 01:02 PM.

January 7th, 2011, 01:21 PM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Garrett, I think it is great that we now have Hot Swapping. Thus, if one is there to perform the hot-swapping, then all is good, provided one does it correctly. The 128 GB Cards have their place, especially if the nanoFlash is unattended, or inaccessable. Examples, the Hawaii Undersea Research Lab uses Flash XDR's in their submarines. They can now record for twice the amount of time without having to expect the researchers from switching cards. UAV's could now record for over 10 hours at Broadcast Quality. At seminars or events, one can record, at high quality without changing cards. I agree completely that multiple 64 GB cards may be the answer for some applications. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 6th, 2011, 05:04 PM	#2
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	Hi Buck, Is not only about data-rate/GOPs-Interframe; is also about the kind of scene you are filming. Movement, noise and detail complicates the compression. We have herd of complains on 100Mbps LGOPs on certain situations; but never complains at 220/280Mbps. rafael

January 6th, 2011, 05:42 PM	#4
Buck Forester Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 230	Heard straight from the top. Cool. Thanks Dan!

January 6th, 2011, 07:32 PM	#5
Buck Forester Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 230	Rafael, thanks to you too, for some reason your post did not show up for me to see until after Dan's even though you posted before him. I will shoot I-Frame 280 on my most demanding projects. Gracias.

January 7th, 2011, 01:31 PM	#10
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Dan, I totally agree that the larger 128GB cards have their place. Single op shoots of long events I could see them as a necessity. I do really appreciate the ability to have the hot swap feature. I'm hoping that one of the byproducts of the release of the 128GB cards is that it will push the price for the 64GB cards down. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

January 7th, 2011, 02:27 PM	#11
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	Buck, I agree with Alister Chapman. You should start by testing 220Mbps vs 280 Mbps recording, and see if is really worth to go 280 Mbps. Never need here yet. rafael