How would you do it? at DVinfo.net

Samer Aslan · December 8th, 2010, 06:18 AM

Hi everybody
Next week I will be shooting my first dance show with my Pmw-350 and nano flash (I have done this kind of shooting many times but with other cameras..dvcam or betacam)
I was thinking to shoot full Hd on SXS and Sd Mxf 50mb/s on NF via sdi..I will have to shoot all the show from beginning to end,it’s about two hours show.
I was wondering what is the maximum file size of the sxs without interrupting (stopping) registration and the same thing about NFs maximum size file,I know I should press rec on nano every 8 minutes to create new file or clip (am I right?),and with SXS how does it work?
I will do some editing with avid media composer,will avid import any size of clip no matter how big it will be?
What is the the best way to shoot an entire show without stopping from recording and then to import to avid to make some dvds?
How would you do this?
Thank you
Samer
VIDEOSHOT

Dan Keaton · December 8th, 2010, 06:33 AM

Dear Samer,

There is no need to press the Record button on the nanoFlash every 8 minutes or so.

You can press the record button on the nanoFlash if you want to break the files at logical points.

The nanoFlash will automatically break the long recording into reasonable size clips. Each will be approximately 3.7 GB.

If you shoot 50 Mbps, you will get approximately 5 hours and 20 minutes with two 64 GB cards.

If you have two 32 GB cards, you will get approximatey two hours and 40 minutes.

The nanoFlash is capable of recording much better quality than your camera is capbable of recording in-camera.

But, I do not think you can record SD in camera and output via HD-SDI an HD signal.

If it were me, I would setup your camera for HD out via HD-SDI,

The record at ".MXF", HD, 50 Mbps, Long-GOP which will be 4:2:2.
I would set the nanoFlash System|Trigger to Record&Remote
I would press the record button to start the nanoFlash
I would press the record button at the start of logical segments during the event
I would edit the footage in your Avid System
I would then render segments to SD DVD files and burn the DVD.

If you do not want to edit the footage, you could use our MPG mode, then the nanoFlash will automatically break the files into sizes that will fit on a DVD.

In MPG Mode, you will need to feed SD to the nanoFlash, and select an appropriate Bit-Rate, such as 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 Mbps.

Then you can use an appropriate DVD Burning software to take the files and burn the DVD.

In either case, please test your workflow prior to the event.

Rafael Amador · December 8th, 2010, 06:38 AM

Hi Samer,
Recording SD in the NF while you record HD on the SxS cards (apart of being impossible) would be a waist of your best resource.
You can not record different sizes on the SxS and on the NANO at the same time.
The only possible difference when recording on both, could be about time-base: You can be recording on the SxS 720p50/60, while recording on the NANO 720p25/30 or even 720 Under/Overcranckend or 720p Time-laps.
But always 720.
On 1080 or SD, you have to record exactly the same on both.
The NANO can not downscale, neither de-interlace. It can just records what it gets through SDI and make some basic operation on that signal, as discharging frames or Conforming the clip to a different time-base (Over/Undercrancking).
Cheers,
Rafael

Samer Aslan · December 8th, 2010, 08:05 AM

Dear Dan,
Thank you for quick reply, one of great things I love with NF is the possibility to record SD also,with my camera PMW-350 I can’t do it (it’s an extra cost option and it’s only dvcam), I got many clients that ask me SD footage and the NF gives me that possibility in many ways,and you can be sure that when clients ask me HD footage I always shoot with nano Mxf Hd 50mb/s or more.
When I record so sxs it’s always been for security,I always use NF footage,I have the camera and NF for about 6 month and didn’t ever edit anything with sxs, I always edit material from NF because it’s easier, faster and it looks fantastic,HD or SD.
Thank you again for your reply,CD are always the best…
I record SD on NF when clients ask me Sd footage or SD dvd , I think it’s better to record SD on NF when you will be handing over an SD dvd to a client,and it’s faster, I don’t have to convert it, I would shoot everything in HD but the client have the final word.
I will use the NF to record SD mxf 50mb/s and edit it with Avid,and then use NF again to record MPG directly from timeline(the final edit) via Matrox Mxo2.
Nano Flash…così piccolo, così grande!
Regards
Samer

Adam Stanislav · December 8th, 2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samer Aslan

Nano Flash…così piccolo, così grande!

D’accordo! :)

(To those of you who do not understand, he said “Nano Flash...so small, so grand!” And I said “Agreed! :)”)

Samer Aslan · December 8th, 2010, 11:43 AM

Dear Dan,
I have tried to record to NF (MPG 35mb/s) from my timeline via Matrox Mxo2 (Hdmi) and I have noticed that every time the NF created a new clip or file it creates a kind of jumpcut with audio,the picture is perfect but the audio is not.
I tried to assemble it to get one sequence for a dvd (about 24 minutes) and I can still hear the disturbing audio cut between clips that NF has created.
I ‘am using Delkin UDMA 64 GB (the recommended from CD)
Notice that I have tried it many times with the same result, and the card I’m using is the one I usually use out for shooting and it works just fine.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks
Samer
VIDEOSHOT

Dan Keaton · December 8th, 2010, 12:06 PM

Dear Samer,

I am checking with our engineers now.

Samer Aslan · December 8th, 2010, 12:09 PM

[QUOTE=Rafael Amador;1596186]Hi Samer,
Recording SD in the NF while you record HD on the SxS cards (apart of being impossible) would be a waist of your best resource.
You can not record different sizes on the SxS and on the NANO at the same time.

Dear Rafael,
In order to record SD on NF it is enough to go to menu and change Sdi output to SD,you can do it with PMW-350 and maybe (not sure) with EX1R & EX3.
I do it all the time, if my client wants SD, I shoot HD 1080i/50 with SXS and SD 50mb/s on NF, and in this case I do what I always do,just change the Sdi output to SD and that’s it…I keep the HD footage to my self and hand over the Sd footage to the client,done hundred times since I got my camera and NF,if the client want HD footage I just change output form Sdi to HD and hand over the NF HD footage to the client (Mxf 50/s HD 422) and in this case I keep the NF HD footage.
I know that others do so…that is one(of many) benefits of NF and the possibility to change Sdi output-
When you change the Sdi output from Sd to HD the NF displays SD when it is on SD output and 1080i when it is on HD output.
Regards
Samer
VIDEOSHOT

Dan Keaton · December 8th, 2010, 12:16 PM

Dear Samer,

Our chief tester was not aware of the issue you are reporting.

Since we have made improvement to our MPG mode, I recommend that you download 1.6.226 our Public Beta, and run a test.

Also, does this same problem occur when you are recording in MPG mode directly from your camera?

In either case, we are recommending that you test 1.6.226.

1.6.226 Firmware, may be downloaded from the Public Beta area (near the bottom) of our Downloads webpage.

Downloads | Convergent Design | Professional Video Recorders and Converters

Rafael Amador · December 8th, 2010, 02:08 PM

You are absolutely right Samer.
I've skipped that obvious option.
Today is not my day:-)
rafael

Samer Aslan · December 8th, 2010, 04:17 PM

Hi Dan,
I ran the test you asked me to, this time with beta 1.6.226 but with same results.I did the same test as before from timeline with Matrox hdmi, everytime it creates a new clip it seems to lose only the audio (I noticed it's about 2 frames)
I have done a test with the camera also, this time with Sdi input Mpg 35mb/s and it gaves me the same result and it's always a loss of 1 or 2 frames audio only.
I will do some more tests in next days but with SD Mpg 9mb/s, hope it will work better with SD footage...!!
chears
Samer
VIDEOSHOT

Dan Keaton · December 8th, 2010, 05:14 PM

Dear Samer,

We will check this in our lab.

Could you please save a "Settings.txt" file for us?

This is described in the manual.

You can send this to CDSupport (at) convergent - design (dot) com

Samer Aslan · December 9th, 2010, 11:06 AM

just turned back home from work..
I hope this mail helps,I just sent it.
cheers
Samer
VIDEOSHOT

Dan Keaton · December 9th, 2010, 11:13 AM

Dear Samer,

I am studying your settings now.

I also asked our lab to test the MPG specifically looking for lost audio.

You mentioned that the audio was missing for two frames. That is a lot of missing audio samples.

Dan Keaton · December 9th, 2010, 11:44 AM

Dear Friends,

The nanoFlash has a built-in diagnostic tool which allows the current nanoFlash settings to be saved to a "Settings.txt" file.

I do not remember posting one of these before,

This allows our support department to determine the Firmware Version and exact settings that are in use.

Firmware=1.6.226

2010 12 09

17:33:29

/System/Max File Size : 100%

/System/File : File=007001.MPG

/System/Trigger : Record&Remote

/System/Duration : OFF,0

/System/Timecode/Source : Embedded

/System/Timecode/Dropframe : OFF

/System/Timecode/Seed : TOD OFF,00:00:00:00

/System/Timecode/Trigger Delay : 0

/System/Source : SDI

/System/Prebuffer : OFF

/System/Power Saving/Auto Sleep : ON

/System/Power Saving/Auto LCD Off : OFF

/Video/Bit Rate/CF HD Rate : QtMxf=50,Mpg=35,Working=35

/Video/Bit Rate/CF SD Rate : QtMxf=50,Mpg=9Working=9

/Video/CODEC : Long Gop

/Video/Record PSF>Prog : OFF

/Video/Play Prog>PSF : OFF

/Video/Remove 3:2 Pulldown : OFF

/Video/720p 60/50>30/25 : OFF

/Video/SD Aspect Ratio : 16:9

/Video/E to E Direct : OFF

/Video/T-Lapse : OFF,period=1

/Video/Crank : OFF,Base=24,Crank=24

/Video/HDMI Rx color : full range

/Video/35 Mb 1080 Width : 1920

/Video/Screen Tally : OFFOFF

/Video/Flip V : OFF

/Video/Flop H : OFF

/Audio/In : Embedded

/Audio/Analog Settings/Mix In : Stereo Unbal

/Audio/Analog Settings/Gain In : 0.0

/Audio/Analog Settings/Gain Out : 3

/Audio/Record Channels : 4

/Audio/Monitor Channels : 1&2

/Loop Play : ON

/CuePlay : OFF,00:00:00:00

/Loop Record : OFF

Our lab will use these settings to duplicate Samer's setup for our testing.

December 8th, 2010, 06:18 AM	#1
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	How would you do it? Hi everybody Next week I will be shooting my first dance show with my Pmw-350 and nano flash (I have done this kind of shooting many times but with other cameras..dvcam or betacam) I was thinking to shoot full Hd on SXS and Sd Mxf 50mb/s on NF via sdi..I will have to shoot all the show from beginning to end,it’s about two hours show. I was wondering what is the maximum file size of the sxs without interrupting (stopping) registration and the same thing about NFs maximum size file,I know I should press rec on nano every 8 minutes to create new file or clip (am I right?),and with SXS how does it work? I will do some editing with avid media composer,will avid import any size of clip no matter how big it will be? What is the the best way to shoot an entire show without stopping from recording and then to import to avid to make some dvds? How would you do this? Thank you Samer VIDEOSHOT

December 8th, 2010, 06:33 AM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Samer, There is no need to press the Record button on the nanoFlash every 8 minutes or so. You can press the record button on the nanoFlash if you want to break the files at logical points. The nanoFlash will automatically break the long recording into reasonable size clips. Each will be approximately 3.7 GB. If you shoot 50 Mbps, you will get approximately 5 hours and 20 minutes with two 64 GB cards. If you have two 32 GB cards, you will get approximatey two hours and 40 minutes. The nanoFlash is capable of recording much better quality than your camera is capbable of recording in-camera. But, I do not think you can record SD in camera and output via HD-SDI an HD signal. If it were me, I would setup your camera for HD out via HD-SDI, The record at ".MXF", HD, 50 Mbps, Long-GOP which will be 4:2:2. I would set the nanoFlash System\|Trigger to Record&Remote I would press the record button to start the nanoFlash I would press the record button at the start of logical segments during the event I would edit the footage in your Avid System I would then render segments to SD DVD files and burn the DVD. If you do not want to edit the footage, you could use our MPG mode, then the nanoFlash will automatically break the files into sizes that will fit on a DVD. In MPG Mode, you will need to feed SD to the nanoFlash, and select an appropriate Bit-Rate, such as 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 Mbps. Then you can use an appropriate DVD Burning software to take the files and burn the DVD. In either case, please test your workflow prior to the event. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 8th, 2010, 08:05 AM	#4
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	Nano Flash Dear Dan, Thank you for quick reply, one of great things I love with NF is the possibility to record SD also,with my camera PMW-350 I can’t do it (it’s an extra cost option and it’s only dvcam), I got many clients that ask me SD footage and the NF gives me that possibility in many ways,and you can be sure that when clients ask me HD footage I always shoot with nano Mxf Hd 50mb/s or more. When I record so sxs it’s always been for security,I always use NF footage,I have the camera and NF for about 6 month and didn’t ever edit anything with sxs, I always edit material from NF because it’s easier, faster and it looks fantastic,HD or SD. Thank you again for your reply,CD are always the best… I record SD on NF when clients ask me Sd footage or SD dvd , I think it’s better to record SD on NF when you will be handing over an SD dvd to a client,and it’s faster, I don’t have to convert it, I would shoot everything in HD but the client have the final word. I will use the NF to record SD mxf 50mb/s and edit it with Avid,and then use NF again to record MPG directly from timeline(the final edit) via Matrox Mxo2. Nano Flash…così piccolo, così grande! Regards Samer

December 8th, 2010, 11:43 AM	#6
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	MPG with Nano Flash Dear Dan, I have tried to record to NF (MPG 35mb/s) from my timeline via Matrox Mxo2 (Hdmi) and I have noticed that every time the NF created a new clip or file it creates a kind of jumpcut with audio,the picture is perfect but the audio is not. I tried to assemble it to get one sequence for a dvd (about 24 minutes) and I can still hear the disturbing audio cut between clips that NF has created. I ‘am using Delkin UDMA 64 GB (the recommended from CD) Notice that I have tried it many times with the same result, and the card I’m using is the one I usually use out for shooting and it works just fine. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks Samer VIDEOSHOT

December 8th, 2010, 12:06 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Samer, I am checking with our engineers now. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 8th, 2010, 06:38 AM	#3
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	Hi Samer, Recording SD in the NF while you record HD on the SxS cards (apart of being impossible) would be a waist of your best resource. You can not record different sizes on the SxS and on the NANO at the same time. The only possible difference when recording on both, could be about time-base: You can be recording on the SxS 720p50/60, while recording on the NANO 720p25/30 or even 720 Under/Overcranckend or 720p Time-laps. But always 720. On 1080 or SD, you have to record exactly the same on both. The NANO can not downscale, neither de-interlace. It can just records what it gets through SDI and make some basic operation on that signal, as discharging frames or Conforming the clip to a different time-base (Over/Undercrancking). Cheers, Rafael

December 8th, 2010, 12:09 PM	#8
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	sorry,you are wrong [QUOTE=Rafael Amador;1596186]Hi Samer, Recording SD in the NF while you record HD on the SxS cards (apart of being impossible) would be a waist of your best resource. You can not record different sizes on the SxS and on the NANO at the same time. Dear Rafael, In order to record SD on NF it is enough to go to menu and change Sdi output to SD,you can do it with PMW-350 and maybe (not sure) with EX1R & EX3. I do it all the time, if my client wants SD, I shoot HD 1080i/50 with SXS and SD 50mb/s on NF, and in this case I do what I always do,just change the Sdi output to SD and that’s it…I keep the HD footage to my self and hand over the Sd footage to the client,done hundred times since I got my camera and NF,if the client want HD footage I just change output form Sdi to HD and hand over the NF HD footage to the client (Mxf 50/s HD 422) and in this case I keep the NF HD footage. I know that others do so…that is one(of many) benefits of NF and the possibility to change Sdi output- When you change the Sdi output from Sd to HD the NF displays SD when it is on SD output and 1080i when it is on HD output. Regards Samer VIDEOSHOT

December 8th, 2010, 12:16 PM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Samer, Our chief tester was not aware of the issue you are reporting. Since we have made improvement to our MPG mode, I recommend that you download 1.6.226 our Public Beta, and run a test. Also, does this same problem occur when you are recording in MPG mode directly from your camera? In either case, we are recommending that you test 1.6.226. 1.6.226 Firmware, may be downloaded from the Public Beta area (near the bottom) of our Downloads webpage. Downloads \| Convergent Design \| Professional Video Recorders and Converters __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 8th, 2010, 02:08 PM	#10
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	You are absolutely right Samer. I've skipped that obvious option. Today is not my day:-) rafael

December 8th, 2010, 04:17 PM	#11
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	Mpg with NF Hi Dan, I ran the test you asked me to, this time with beta 1.6.226 but with same results.I did the same test as before from timeline with Matrox hdmi, everytime it creates a new clip it seems to lose only the audio (I noticed it's about 2 frames) I have done a test with the camera also, this time with Sdi input Mpg 35mb/s and it gaves me the same result and it's always a loss of 1 or 2 frames audio only. I will do some more tests in next days but with SD Mpg 9mb/s, hope it will work better with SD footage...!! chears Samer VIDEOSHOT

December 8th, 2010, 05:14 PM	#12
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Samer, We will check this in our lab. Could you please save a "Settings.txt" file for us? This is described in the manual. You can send this to CDSupport (at) convergent - design (dot) com __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 9th, 2010, 11:06 AM	#13
Samer Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Padua/Venice - Italy Posts: 131	email sent just turned back home from work.. I hope this mail helps,I just sent it. cheers Samer VIDEOSHOT Last edited by Samer Aslan; December 9th, 2010 at 04:53 PM.

December 9th, 2010, 11:13 AM	#14
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Samer, I am studying your settings now. I also asked our lab to test the MPG specifically looking for lost audio. You mentioned that the audio was missing for two frames. That is a lot of missing audio samples. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 9th, 2010, 11:44 AM	#15
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, The nanoFlash has a built-in diagnostic tool which allows the current nanoFlash settings to be saved to a "Settings.txt" file. I do not remember posting one of these before, This allows our support department to determine the Firmware Version and exact settings that are in use. Firmware=1.6.226 2010 12 09 17:33:29 /System/Max File Size : 100% /System/File : File=007001.MPG /System/Trigger : Record&Remote /System/Duration : OFF,0 /System/Timecode/Source : Embedded /System/Timecode/Dropframe : OFF /System/Timecode/Seed : TOD OFF,00:00:00:00 /System/Timecode/Trigger Delay : 0 /System/Source : SDI /System/Prebuffer : OFF /System/Power Saving/Auto Sleep : ON /System/Power Saving/Auto LCD Off : OFF /Video/Bit Rate/CF HD Rate : QtMxf=50,Mpg=35,Working=35 /Video/Bit Rate/CF SD Rate : QtMxf=50,Mpg=9Working=9 /Video/CODEC : Long Gop /Video/Record PSF>Prog : OFF /Video/Play Prog>PSF : OFF /Video/Remove 3:2 Pulldown : OFF /Video/720p 60/50>30/25 : OFF /Video/SD Aspect Ratio : 16:9 /Video/E to E Direct : OFF /Video/T-Lapse : OFF,period=1 /Video/Crank : OFF,Base=24,Crank=24 /Video/HDMI Rx color : full range /Video/35 Mb 1080 Width : 1920 /Video/Screen Tally : OFFOFF /Video/Flip V : OFF /Video/Flop H : OFF /Audio/In : Embedded /Audio/Analog Settings/Mix In : Stereo Unbal /Audio/Analog Settings/Gain In : 0.0 /Audio/Analog Settings/Gain Out : 3 /Audio/Record Channels : 4 /Audio/Monitor Channels : 1&2 /Loop Play : ON /CuePlay : OFF,00:00:00:00 /Loop Record : OFF Our lab will use these settings to duplicate Samer's setup for our testing. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia