Shoot tape or not

Robin Probyn · December 1st, 2010, 04:30 PM

Sure I would too with that camera.. but DVCpro HD tapes arent that cheap over a year..

Gints Klimanis · December 1st, 2010, 05:05 PM

Overall, the connected camcorder solution is more reliable than any attached media recorder simply because you are watching the camcorder nearly all of the time. I continue to record on my EX1 while using the Nano. Though, you will probably agree more when your primary camcorder uses flash memory recording and not tape.

Robin Probyn · December 1st, 2010, 06:01 PM

Yes totally agree.If I was shooting EX3 or any card camera I would most likely record in camera at the same time.. then just format the cards when everything was in backed up..

Andy Mangrum · December 2nd, 2010, 10:55 AM

Hello Everyone,

We suggest to all of our customers when possible record to tape, or if they can afford it have a backup or redundant nanoFlash when on important shoots. Granted the nanoFlash is excellent product, but it is impossible to predict failures, wether it be with the Camera, nanoFlash, or any part of the workflow.

So the better prepared you are, making backups via the tape in a camera, or P2 card's etc, even thou there might be some loss of quality depending on the camera, you will still have the shot, that is why we also suggest for customers to purchase a nexto backup drive. It is a small initial cost to backup your footage, compared to loosing footage. accidental formating, or Compact Flash Card failure, which is extremely rare but we have seen it, just like anything else nothing is ever full proof. Not to mention the speed, and ease of use in the field.

Best Regards

Mark Job · December 2nd, 2010, 04:59 PM

Hi Andy:
I want to add my voice to this chorus, and I strongly concur with simultaneous tape rolling as a backup. In fact, I will go as far as to say I value any production ready camera which also contains a fully operational recording VTR inside it. I always shoot an HDV cassette tape while recording to my Convergent Design Flash XDR, and would not even consider shooting a paying job without tape in the camera. Tape is cheap, and I consider my Flash XDR to be totally stable at this point (Other than current Beta Release disappearing LTC/TC Trigger with E to E Record Tally Engaged), but I still want to cover myself so I may still get the shot no matter what - even if it's in lower resolution - thick raster HD @ 25 Mbps.

Rafael Amador · December 2nd, 2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Probyn

Sure I would too with that camera.. but DVCpro HD tapes arent that cheap over a year..

You are right Robin, but if those tapes are used only for on the field back-up and are not used for editing, they can be reused MANY MANY times. Just keep in good shape the video heads and drum.
rafael

Bob Griffiths · December 5th, 2010, 03:29 PM

I spent the last year shooting flawlessly with the nano... until the last job. For some reason, the first 4 minutes of the first shot on the first day (interview) never made it on the nano... never did figure out why. Everything else over two days was perfect. I was very glad to have the tape. But new stock seems excessive. I try to get used stock when I can.

Dan Keaton · December 5th, 2010, 03:34 PM

Dear Bob,

Were you triggering with System|Trigger TC > Last TC?

If so, and you recorded color bars or anything else, then reset the timecode in the camera, then the nanoFlash would not start recording unitl the timecode from the camera was higher than what was recorded previously on the nanoFlash.

If the nanoFlash is turned off, then the "Highest Previous Timecode" value is erased.

Robin Probyn · December 5th, 2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Griffiths

I spent the last year shooting flawlessly with the nano... until the last job. For some reason, the first 4 minutes of the first shot on the first day (interview) never made it on the nano... never did figure out why. Everything else over two days was perfect. I was very glad to have the tape. But new stock seems excessive. I try to get used stock when I can.

Sorry if obvious question.. but was the red light flashing.. but still no data on the card?

Robin Probyn · December 5th, 2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Bob,

Were you triggering with System|Trigger TC > Last TC?

If so, and you recorded color bars or anything else, then reset the timecode in the camera, then the nanoFlash would not start recording unitl the timecode from the camera was higher than what was recorded previously on the nanoFlash.

If the nanoFlash is turned off, then the "Highest Previous Timecode" value is erased.

Re your last line.. If the nanoFlash is turned off, then the "Highest Previous Timecode" value is erased.[/QUOTE]

How does that effect recording,if the nano is then plugged in again,same setting TC last TC..and record button on camera is pressed..?

Dan Keaton · December 6th, 2010, 04:59 AM

Dear Robin,

If you are using System|Trigger|TC > Last TC, and you power off the nanoFlash,

then, when the camera rolls timecode again, the nanoFlash will immediately start recording,

Then, after this recording stops, the nanoFlash will not start recording again until the timecode exceeds the highest timecode already received.

The purpose of this setting is to allow one to rewind and review, in-camera, without the nanoFlash recording the same clip again.

The only operational problem with this, is when someone powers on then nanoFlash, records anything, such as color bars, and then resets the timecode in the camera back to a lower value. In this case, just power cycle the nanoFlash.

Robin Probyn · December 6th, 2010, 05:24 AM

so unplugging the nano and then plugging back in.. there by erasing the previously remembered highest TC .. makes no difference to TC-last TC recording?

Dan Keaton · December 6th, 2010, 07:33 AM

Dear Robin,

I am sorry, but I do not understand your question.

If one is using System|Trigger|TC > Last TC,

Then when the nanoFlash first powers up, it will start recording no matter what the timecode value is.

Once this or any other file is recorded, it is on the CompactFlash card media and will not be lost or changed if the nanoFlash is powered off then back on again.

While the nanoFlash is powered up and in this "System|Trigger|TC > Last TC" mode, the only clips that will be recorded are those that have timecode higher than the highest timecode recevied since the nanoFlash wa powered up.

But, if one powers down the nanoFlash, then powers it up again, the nanoFlash will reset the "Highest Timecode Value" to zero, and thus every timecode that comes in will trigger the nanoFlash to record.

Subsequent clips will be recorded only if the timecode is higher than the saved "Highest Timecode Value".

I hope this helps.

Robin Probyn · December 6th, 2010, 03:37 PM

Ah Ok I get it..

Thanks

December 2nd, 2010, 10:55 AM	#19
Andy Mangrum Sponsor: Convergent Design Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 166	Shoot tape or not Hello Everyone, We suggest to all of our customers when possible record to tape, or if they can afford it have a backup or redundant nanoFlash when on important shoots. Granted the nanoFlash is excellent product, but it is impossible to predict failures, wether it be with the Camera, nanoFlash, or any part of the workflow. So the better prepared you are, making backups via the tape in a camera, or P2 card's etc, even thou there might be some loss of quality depending on the camera, you will still have the shot, that is why we also suggest for customers to purchase a nexto backup drive. It is a small initial cost to backup your footage, compared to loosing footage. accidental formating, or Compact Flash Card failure, which is extremely rare but we have seen it, just like anything else nothing is ever full proof. Not to mention the speed, and ease of use in the field. Best Regards __________________ Andy Mangrum, Tech Support Convergent Design, Inc

December 2nd, 2010, 04:59 PM	#20
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	Cover Thyself with Tape Hi Andy: I want to add my voice to this chorus, and I strongly concur with simultaneous tape rolling as a backup. In fact, I will go as far as to say I value any production ready camera which also contains a fully operational recording VTR inside it. I always shoot an HDV cassette tape while recording to my Convergent Design Flash XDR, and would not even consider shooting a paying job without tape in the camera. Tape is cheap, and I consider my Flash XDR to be totally stable at this point (Other than current Beta Release disappearing LTC/TC Trigger with E to E Record Tally Engaged), but I still want to cover myself so I may still get the shot no matter what - even if it's in lower resolution - thick raster HD @ 25 Mbps.

December 5th, 2010, 03:29 PM	#22
Bob Griffiths Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Carbondale, Colorado Posts: 117	I spent the last year shooting flawlessly with the nano... until the last job. For some reason, the first 4 minutes of the first shot on the first day (interview) never made it on the nano... never did figure out why. Everything else over two days was perfect. I was very glad to have the tape. But new stock seems excessive. I try to get used stock when I can. __________________ Bob FireDancer Productions, Inc.

December 5th, 2010, 03:34 PM	#23
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bob, Were you triggering with System\|Trigger TC > Last TC? If so, and you recorded color bars or anything else, then reset the timecode in the camera, then the nanoFlash would not start recording unitl the timecode from the camera was higher than what was recorded previously on the nanoFlash. If the nanoFlash is turned off, then the "Highest Previous Timecode" value is erased. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 6th, 2010, 04:59 AM	#26
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, If you are using System\|Trigger\|TC > Last TC, and you power off the nanoFlash, then, when the camera rolls timecode again, the nanoFlash will immediately start recording, Then, after this recording stops, the nanoFlash will not start recording again until the timecode exceeds the highest timecode already received. The purpose of this setting is to allow one to rewind and review, in-camera, without the nanoFlash recording the same clip again. The only operational problem with this, is when someone powers on then nanoFlash, records anything, such as color bars, and then resets the timecode in the camera back to a lower value. In this case, just power cycle the nanoFlash. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia Last edited by Dan Keaton; December 6th, 2010 at 07:34 AM.

December 1st, 2010, 04:30 PM	#16
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Sure I would too with that camera.. but DVCpro HD tapes arent that cheap over a year..

December 1st, 2010, 05:05 PM	#17
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Overall, the connected camcorder solution is more reliable than any attached media recorder simply because you are watching the camcorder nearly all of the time. I continue to record on my EX1 while using the Nano. Though, you will probably agree more when your primary camcorder uses flash memory recording and not tape.

December 1st, 2010, 06:01 PM	#18
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Yes totally agree.If I was shooting EX3 or any card camera I would most likely record in camera at the same time.. then just format the cards when everything was in backed up..

December 6th, 2010, 05:24 AM	#27
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	so unplugging the nano and then plugging back in.. there by erasing the previously remembered highest TC .. makes no difference to TC-last TC recording?

December 6th, 2010, 07:33 AM	#28
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, I am sorry, but I do not understand your question. If one is using System\|Trigger\|TC > Last TC, Then when the nanoFlash first powers up, it will start recording no matter what the timecode value is. Once this or any other file is recorded, it is on the CompactFlash card media and will not be lost or changed if the nanoFlash is powered off then back on again. While the nanoFlash is powered up and in this "System\|Trigger\|TC > Last TC" mode, the only clips that will be recorded are those that have timecode higher than the highest timecode recevied since the nanoFlash wa powered up. But, if one powers down the nanoFlash, then powers it up again, the nanoFlash will reset the "Highest Timecode Value" to zero, and thus every timecode that comes in will trigger the nanoFlash to record. Subsequent clips will be recorded only if the timecode is higher than the saved "Highest Timecode Value". I hope this helps. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 6th, 2010, 03:37 PM	#29
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Ah Ok I get it.. Thanks