No SDI Sig on bars setting at DVinfo.net

Robin Probyn · September 5th, 2010, 08:47 PM

Just made a discovery.. re my problem the other day.. when no TC -last Tc trigger didnt work..

On HDX900 Moni out HD SDI .. the nano gives No signal reading when bars and tone are set.. and so doesnt record.. bars and tone off..totally fine..

Would there be a reason for this?

Dan Keaton · September 6th, 2010, 01:04 PM

Dear Robin,

Yes, we do not feel that the HDX900's Color Bars are fully compliant with the the SMPTE Spec.

As far as I know, the nanoFlash will show No SRC when the HDX900 puts out Color Bars.

Robin Probyn · September 6th, 2010, 04:22 PM

Hi Dan

Yes thats exactly what happens..and was the cause of my problem re TC trigger.. was sure I had recorded bars to the nano but obviously I couldnt have!

What is not right about the HDX900,s bars and tone that Nano doesnt see it..

Thanks again for your time

Dan Keaton · September 6th, 2010, 04:59 PM

Dear Robin,

I do not know what is wrong with the color bars.

I will check with our engineers tomorrow.

Robin Probyn · September 6th, 2010, 06:29 PM

Ok thanks!

Dan Keaton · September 7th, 2010, 09:48 AM

Dear Robin,

I asked Mr. Jim Bridges of Type A Media in Atlanta to run a test with his HDX900 and nanoFlash.

He started the camera rolling, the nanoFlash started recording, then he went into color bars and tone for 10 seconds, then stopped recording.

The nanoFlash recorded the color bars and tone.

He did not have the "Supers" on at the time, so there was nothing superimposed on the color bars.
The color bars and tone were recorded and Jim checked the file in his editor.

I recommend after recording color bars to stop recording, then turn the color bars off, then start recording, when appropriate.

Dan Keaton · September 7th, 2010, 12:53 PM

Dear Robin,

I have discussed this issue with our engineers.

If you have "Supers" on, thus showing the viewfinder data overlaied over the Color Bars, and you are setup for 24p or have nanoFlash "Pulldown Removal" on, then the nanoFlash may not lock to the HDX900 signal, thus preventing you from recording the colorbars.

Could you please provide more information?

What Frame Rate?

Do you have "Supers" on?

Do you have "Pulldown Removal" on in the nanoFlash?

Robin Probyn · September 7th, 2010, 11:07 PM

Hi Dan

Yes I was shooting 24P..and did therefore have the remove pull down.. to get 24P from 30P

From mono out I dont have any super,s as I understand they would be recorded !!

But I do have my name,and time set to be supered for bar,s..

Must do a check with 25P.. Iam almost sure I have recored bars and tone to the nano in 25P.. which would not have remove pull down checked I believe?

Thanks again

Robin

Dan Keaton · September 8th, 2010, 06:05 AM

Dear Robin,

You could run a test without extra information on the color bars.

Or run a 25p test with no pulldown.

Robin Probyn · September 9th, 2010, 02:22 AM

All other frames rates are fine for bars and tone..

25P with remove pull down still checked also works.. All with super on

Looks like only 24p.. remove pull down checked,,(which it has to be) doesn't work.. cant seen anywhere to easily turn off supers.. I have only my name.. and date/time..supered onto the bars.. but anyway that doesn't seem to matter..

But a combination of 24P and remove pull down.. for some reason the nano doesn't see the signal..?

Not the end of the world.. just wish I,d known before that shoot!

Thanks

Dusty Powers · September 11th, 2010, 01:53 AM

Dan, I received a call from a NanoFlash owner today who just discovered the same problem with no having color bars when recording 1080 / 24p with the HDX-900. He was looking for an answer. I think I remembered discovering this before in the past, but could not remember why and when this occurred. Must have been a non issue. My curiousity is now turning and wanting to know why this happens.

Dan Keaton · September 11th, 2010, 06:33 AM

Dear Dusty,

We do not currently have a HDX900 in our lab to test this.

Our Chief Engineer told me that this ocurrs when the Pulldown Removal is checked on the nanoFlash, and the camera is set to 24p, and the "supers" are on.

The "supers" are any characters superimposed on the color bars.

We can not lock to the incoming color bars under these conditions.

The reason is that the color bars are being put out at one frame rate and the "supers" at another, according to our engineers, thus making it hard for us to determine the pulldown pattern.

One test that you could run is to start recording a scene, without colorbars, then switch on the color bars.

The other test is to turn off the "supers".

I will attempt to find out how to turn off the "supers" by reading the HDX900 manual.

Dan Keaton · September 11th, 2010, 07:11 AM

Dear Dusty and Robin,

I have been attempting to find the setting that puts the "supers" on the color bars.

I do not have a HDX900 at my disposal to test this, but after reading the manual, I think the following menu item applies:

Menu|Main Menu|VF|VF Indicator 1|Camera ID

This can be set to Bar or Off

Please set this to OFF, to prevent the Camera ID being superimposed on the Color Bars.

I found this on Page 117, in Section 7-4-4 in the Panasonic Operating Instructions for the HDX900 manual.

I feel that if this setting is set to Off, then our Pulldown Removal function will not be confused by the Color Bars coming out at one frame rate and the Camera ID (Super) coming out at a different frame rate.

I hope this helps.

Robin Probyn · September 11th, 2010, 09:02 AM

Hi Dan and Dusty

I found all other frame rates are fine with bars and supers.. only 24,meaning .. remove pull down.. being a problem..

Will check out the no super settings..

It was only a problem in that it through me on the day.. why wasn't the nano recording.. I had only used it at 25P before..which is fine..

Thanks for looking into it

Dan Keaton · September 11th, 2010, 09:32 AM

Dear Robin,

While you may have checked "Pulldown Removal" while you were sending 25p to the nanoFlash, it did not go into "Pulldown Removal" mode since this feature works with 24p only.

Thus, there was no "Pulldown Removal" being used, thus the cadence of the video from your camera was not a problem, thus, we recorded your color bars without a problem.

September 5th, 2010, 08:47 PM	#1
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	No SDI Sig on bars setting Just made a discovery.. re my problem the other day.. when no TC -last Tc trigger didnt work.. On HDX900 Moni out HD SDI .. the nano gives No signal reading when bars and tone are set.. and so doesnt record.. bars and tone off..totally fine.. Would there be a reason for this?

September 6th, 2010, 01:04 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, Yes, we do not feel that the HDX900's Color Bars are fully compliant with the the SMPTE Spec. As far as I know, the nanoFlash will show No SRC when the HDX900 puts out Color Bars. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 6th, 2010, 04:59 PM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, I do not know what is wrong with the color bars. I will check with our engineers tomorrow. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 7th, 2010, 09:48 AM	#6
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, I asked Mr. Jim Bridges of Type A Media in Atlanta to run a test with his HDX900 and nanoFlash. He started the camera rolling, the nanoFlash started recording, then he went into color bars and tone for 10 seconds, then stopped recording. The nanoFlash recorded the color bars and tone. He did not have the "Supers" on at the time, so there was nothing superimposed on the color bars. The color bars and tone were recorded and Jim checked the file in his editor. I recommend after recording color bars to stop recording, then turn the color bars off, then start recording, when appropriate. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 7th, 2010, 12:53 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, I have discussed this issue with our engineers. If you have "Supers" on, thus showing the viewfinder data overlaied over the Color Bars, and you are setup for 24p or have nanoFlash "Pulldown Removal" on, then the nanoFlash may not lock to the HDX900 signal, thus preventing you from recording the colorbars. Could you please provide more information? What Frame Rate? Do you have "Supers" on? Do you have "Pulldown Removal" on in the nanoFlash? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 6th, 2010, 04:22 PM	#3
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Hi Dan Yes thats exactly what happens..and was the cause of my problem re TC trigger.. was sure I had recorded bars to the nano but obviously I couldnt have! What is not right about the HDX900,s bars and tone that Nano doesnt see it.. Thanks again for your time

September 6th, 2010, 06:29 PM	#5
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Ok thanks!

September 7th, 2010, 11:07 PM	#8
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Hi Dan Yes I was shooting 24P..and did therefore have the remove pull down.. to get 24P from 30P From mono out I dont have any super,s as I understand they would be recorded !! But I do have my name,and time set to be supered for bar,s.. Must do a check with 25P.. Iam almost sure I have recored bars and tone to the nano in 25P.. which would not have remove pull down checked I believe? Thanks again Robin

September 8th, 2010, 06:05 AM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, You could run a test without extra information on the color bars. Or run a 25p test with no pulldown. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 9th, 2010, 02:22 AM	#10
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	All other frames rates are fine for bars and tone.. 25P with remove pull down still checked also works.. All with super on Looks like only 24p.. remove pull down checked,,(which it has to be) doesn't work.. cant seen anywhere to easily turn off supers.. I have only my name.. and date/time..supered onto the bars.. but anyway that doesn't seem to matter.. But a combination of 24P and remove pull down.. for some reason the nano doesn't see the signal..? Not the end of the world.. just wish I,d known before that shoot! Thanks

September 11th, 2010, 01:53 AM	#11
Dusty Powers Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 31	Dan, I received a call from a NanoFlash owner today who just discovered the same problem with no having color bars when recording 1080 / 24p with the HDX-900. He was looking for an answer. I think I remembered discovering this before in the past, but could not remember why and when this occurred. Must have been a non issue. My curiousity is now turning and wanting to know why this happens.

September 11th, 2010, 06:33 AM	#12
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Dusty, We do not currently have a HDX900 in our lab to test this. Our Chief Engineer told me that this ocurrs when the Pulldown Removal is checked on the nanoFlash, and the camera is set to 24p, and the "supers" are on. The "supers" are any characters superimposed on the color bars. We can not lock to the incoming color bars under these conditions. The reason is that the color bars are being put out at one frame rate and the "supers" at another, according to our engineers, thus making it hard for us to determine the pulldown pattern. One test that you could run is to start recording a scene, without colorbars, then switch on the color bars. The other test is to turn off the "supers". I will attempt to find out how to turn off the "supers" by reading the HDX900 manual. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 11th, 2010, 07:11 AM	#13
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Dusty and Robin, I have been attempting to find the setting that puts the "supers" on the color bars. I do not have a HDX900 at my disposal to test this, but after reading the manual, I think the following menu item applies: Menu\|Main Menu\|VF\|VF Indicator 1\|Camera ID This can be set to Bar or Off Please set this to OFF, to prevent the Camera ID being superimposed on the Color Bars. I found this on Page 117, in Section 7-4-4 in the Panasonic Operating Instructions for the HDX900 manual. I feel that if this setting is set to Off, then our Pulldown Removal function will not be confused by the Color Bars coming out at one frame rate and the Camera ID (Super) coming out at a different frame rate. I hope this helps. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 11th, 2010, 09:02 AM	#14
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Hi Dan and Dusty I found all other frame rates are fine with bars and supers.. only 24,meaning .. remove pull down.. being a problem.. Will check out the no super settings.. It was only a problem in that it through me on the day.. why wasn't the nano recording.. I had only used it at 25P before..which is fine.. Thanks for looking into it

September 11th, 2010, 09:32 AM	#15
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Robin, While you may have checked "Pulldown Removal" while you were sending 25p to the nanoFlash, it did not go into "Pulldown Removal" mode since this feature works with 24p only. Thus, there was no "Pulldown Removal" being used, thus the cadence of the video from your camera was not a problem, thus, we recorded your color bars without a problem. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia