Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?

Terrance Odette · January 5th, 2011, 06:44 PM

Dear Gerado
I was just explaining "field split for slow mo for Dan.
But while you are on line, can you tell me a few things about the nanoflash set up.
Are you using long GOP or Iframe?
Terry

Gerardo Campos · January 5th, 2011, 07:24 PM

Hi,
I use I-Frame only in 280 or 220, crank to 24p; if you have a fast car you will see that the bit rate will drop to 224 when you use 280, that is because of the crank seting in 24 ( less info to record ). And I use I-Frame because I notice a better result in the chroma process than with Long GOP. I remove the card from the camera to eliminate any info in the screen, and conect a Lilliput monitor to my nanoflash. I made a conector to use sony NP-L970 bateries with the monitor, and last forever, more than 7 hours.
www.gecofilms.cl

Gerardo Campos · January 11th, 2011, 08:26 AM

hi, here is my rig for the nanoflash + nex-vg10, is working as a shoulder system too

Gerardo Campos · January 11th, 2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerardo Campos

Hi,
I use I-Frame only in 280 or 220, crank to 24p; if you have a fast car you will see that the bit rate will drop to 224 when you use 280, that is because of the crank seting in 24 ( less info to record ). And I use I-Frame because I notice a better result in the chroma process than with Long GOP. I remove the card from the camera to eliminate any info in the screen, and conect a Lilliput monitor to my nanoflash. I made a conector to use sony NP-L970 bateries with the monitor, and last forever, more than 7 hours.
www.gecofilms.cl

where I put "car" must to be "card", sorry

Andy Corleone · January 31st, 2011, 03:19 AM

Could someone please let me know if there is any benefit of using a nano flash with the Sony NEX-VG10?

what about moire? when you record with the nano flash can you improve image quality and remove moire artefacts?

or the only benefit is for Chroma Keying

Thanks

Rafael Amador · January 31st, 2011, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrance Odette

Maybe I am saying it wrong. The process is this: shoot 60i, which then has 2 fields per frame. In After FX or Motion (Apple) you then make each field an independent frame thus making your 29.97 (60i) into 60 FPS. Cheater's Sow Mo. You fix the chroma loss in colour correction.

Sorry, but what Gerardo proposes (duplicating frames) is just a waist of resources and wont ever yields a good slow-mo.
You need to get ONE FRAME PER FIELD, so TWO DIFFERENT pictures per frame.
You will always get a MUCH better Slow-mo from a 1080i60, than from any 1080p30.
To get this, the only solution I know, is with "Re-Vision FieldsKit"
You convert your 1080i60 to 1080p60, getting ALL the frames different.
Then you Conform to 1080p30.
rafael

Rafael Amador · January 31st, 2011, 10:36 AM

The benefits of the NANO are on avoiding much Chroma Subsampling (422 instead of 420) and avoiding too much compression. This is nothing about Chroma-key, but about keeping more of the original info collected by the camera captors.
The NANO can not "cure" artifacts, moire or any other kind of distortion produced by camera head, but will avoid further degradation on recording.
rafael

Gerardo Campos · February 4th, 2011, 08:45 PM

Dear Rafael,
For slow motion now I'm usin Boris BCC 7 with Optical Flow, is like Twixtor, and you can do really slow motions at 3000 fps. Any way back to Nanoflash and NEX-VG10, what you really get is the option to grade your footage in post whitout the problems of 420, so if you will make a color correction to the green color, you are and not make any changes to the blues; but in 420 always you have contaminations betwen colors when you do a color correction. That is one of the most important things of using 422 instead of 420.
NEX-VG10 video:

www.gecofilms.cl

Terrance Odette · April 1st, 2011, 12:44 PM

[QUOTE=Dan Keaton;1603529]Dear Terrance,

We only support audio in a few crank options.

I need to discuss this with our Chief Engineer.

Each and every cranking combination (Base Frame Rate + Crank Rate) requires special code in the nanoFlash to support audio.

We may, in the future, be able to support more of the popular combinations with audio.
This is not a promise at this time.

HI DAN

Any answers with regards to the audio. Which cranks are supported - 25p to 24p by chance?
BTW. My eye is not good enough to tell but is this really happening, I'm getting a true 24p undercranking from the camera output at 25p ?
Terry

Dan Keaton · April 1st, 2011, 05:20 PM

Dear Terrance,

I asked our Chief Engineer previously.

When one Cranks at 24/24 or 25/25, or 30/30, one should get audio.

If you have a 25p source, may I just suggest a test?

Piotr Wozniacki · April 2nd, 2011, 01:54 PM

Gerardo,

Did you de-noise the video you posted here? For a camera like the VG10, it looks absolutely clean and noise free! Do you use Neatvideo, or alike?

Piotr

Gerardo Campos · April 17th, 2011, 01:09 PM

in some shots I use Neatvideo because I choose a noisy picture profile in the camera, but that was in a few shots

Terrance Odette · April 19th, 2011, 01:18 PM

Dan
Can you confirm that the I-frame is true I-frame? The reason I am asking is someone I work with tells me that with the sony mfx codec it is not possible to have an I-frame.
Terry

Dan Keaton · April 19th, 2011, 01:54 PM

Dear Terrance,

The Sony XDCam Codec is a Long-GOP codec.

We call ours "I-Frame Only".

Thus, all of the frames are I-Frame within the GOP (Group of Pictures).

Thus, your NLE will process the GOP but each frame will be an I-Frame (Intra-Frame Compression).

I hope this helps.

Terrance Odette · April 19th, 2011, 02:26 PM

Dan
Thanks. You were even kind enough to not mention my mistake in the codec. BTW, I just ordered the Zacuto EVF.That completes my package. I have a Canada Art Council grant to shoot my next feature (my films mostly get festival and art-house cinema play) . I will be shooting NEWVG10 to NANOFLASH with third-party lens. Looking forward to being able to shoot high-end pictures at a fraction of the cost from a few years ago.

January 5th, 2011, 07:24 PM	#62
Gerardo Campos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: santiago Chile Posts: 28	nanoflash + nex-vg10 Hi, I use I-Frame only in 280 or 220, crank to 24p; if you have a fast car you will see that the bit rate will drop to 224 when you use 280, that is because of the crank seting in 24 ( less info to record ). And I use I-Frame because I notice a better result in the chroma process than with Long GOP. I remove the card from the camera to eliminate any info in the screen, and conect a Lilliput monitor to my nanoflash. I made a conector to use sony NP-L970 bateries with the monitor, and last forever, more than 7 hours. www.gecofilms.cl

January 11th, 2011, 08:26 AM	#63
Gerardo Campos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: santiago Chile Posts: 28	nanoflash + nex-vg10 hi, here is my rig for the nanoflash + nex-vg10, is working as a shoulder system too Attached Thumbnails

February 4th, 2011, 08:45 PM	#68
Gerardo Campos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: santiago Chile Posts: 28	nanoflash + nex-vg10 Dear Rafael, For slow motion now I'm usin Boris BCC 7 with Optical Flow, is like Twixtor, and you can do really slow motions at 3000 fps. Any way back to Nanoflash and NEX-VG10, what you really get is the option to grade your footage in post whitout the problems of 420, so if you will make a color correction to the green color, you are and not make any changes to the blues; but in 420 always you have contaminations betwen colors when you do a color correction. That is one of the most important things of using 422 instead of 420. NEX-VG10 video: mama lani miniaturas on Vimeo www.gecofilms.cl

April 1st, 2011, 12:44 PM	#69
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? [QUOTE=Dan Keaton;1603529]Dear Terrance, We only support audio in a few crank options. I need to discuss this with our Chief Engineer. Each and every cranking combination (Base Frame Rate + Crank Rate) requires special code in the nanoFlash to support audio. We may, in the future, be able to support more of the popular combinations with audio. This is not a promise at this time. HI DAN Any answers with regards to the audio. Which cranks are supported - 25p to 24p by chance? BTW. My eye is not good enough to tell but is this really happening, I'm getting a true 24p undercranking from the camera output at 25p ? Terry

April 1st, 2011, 05:20 PM	#70
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? Dear Terrance, I asked our Chief Engineer previously. When one Cranks at 24/24 or 25/25, or 30/30, one should get audio. If you have a 25p source, may I just suggest a test? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 5th, 2011, 06:44 PM	#61
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Dear Gerado I was just explaining "field split for slow mo for Dan. But while you are on line, can you tell me a few things about the nanoflash set up. Are you using long GOP or Iframe? Terry

January 31st, 2011, 03:19 AM	#65
Andy Corleone Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: London Posts: 27	Could someone please let me know if there is any benefit of using a nano flash with the Sony NEX-VG10? what about moire? when you record with the nano flash can you improve image quality and remove moire artefacts? or the only benefit is for Chroma Keying Thanks

January 31st, 2011, 10:36 AM	#67
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	The benefits of the NANO are on avoiding much Chroma Subsampling (422 instead of 420) and avoiding too much compression. This is nothing about Chroma-key, but about keeping more of the original info collected by the camera captors. The NANO can not "cure" artifacts, moire or any other kind of distortion produced by camera head, but will avoid further degradation on recording. rafael

April 2nd, 2011, 01:54 PM	#71
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? Gerardo, Did you de-noise the video you posted here? For a camera like the VG10, it looks absolutely clean and noise free! Do you use Neatvideo, or alike? Piotr __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

April 17th, 2011, 01:09 PM	#72
Gerardo Campos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: santiago Chile Posts: 28	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? in some shots I use Neatvideo because I choose a noisy picture profile in the camera, but that was in a few shots

April 19th, 2011, 01:18 PM	#73
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? Dan Can you confirm that the I-frame is true I-frame? The reason I am asking is someone I work with tells me that with the sony mfx codec it is not possible to have an I-frame. Terry

April 19th, 2011, 01:54 PM	#74
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? Dear Terrance, The Sony XDCam Codec is a Long-GOP codec. We call ours "I-Frame Only". Thus, all of the frames are I-Frame within the GOP (Group of Pictures). Thus, your NLE will process the GOP but each frame will be an I-Frame (Intra-Frame Compression). I hope this helps. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 19th, 2011, 02:26 PM	#75
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash? Dan Thanks. You were even kind enough to not mention my mistake in the codec. BTW, I just ordered the Zacuto EVF.That completes my package. I have a Canada Art Council grant to shoot my next feature (my films mostly get festival and art-house cinema play) . I will be shooting NEWVG10 to NANOFLASH with third-party lens. Looking forward to being able to shoot high-end pictures at a fraction of the cost from a few years ago.