Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?

Dan Keaton · January 4th, 2011, 06:26 AM

Dear Terrance,

As I understand your posts, by Precompression, you mean that the signal out of the NEX-VG10 is uncompressed.

And yes, that would be true.

I expect the signal out of the Sony NEX-VG10 to be 4:2:2 uncompressed.

It could actually be 4:4:4 uncompressed also.

The Canon HV30, HV40 and possibly others actually output 4:4:4 over HDMI and the nanoFlash accepts and processes the signal using only the 4:2:2 material for recording.

Terrance Odette · January 4th, 2011, 06:39 AM

Yes, uncompressed is what I meant. With regards to the HV20. I have been using one for a few years and with the nano in the last while. The Nex VG10 beats it out sensor-wise big time. Just in detail alone. I am going to start playing with the audio on nanoflash. Only need mono or 2 track at best. Any tips for compact powered submixers to the 1/8 input on nanoflash?

Dan Keaton · January 4th, 2011, 07:28 AM

Dear Terrance,

The nanoFlash can accept:

One Balance Mic/Line Input

Two Unbalanced Mic/Line Inputs

These analog inputs are recorded at 24-bits / 48K.

The nanoFlash does not provide Phantom Power.

Thus, certain mics can be connected to the nanoFlash directly, others may need a cable, or others may need an adapter that provides Phantom Power.

The Juicedlink and Beachtek products could solve certain scenarios.

But many situations may not need an adapter.

So, what mics or audio sources do you have, so I can be of more assistance?

Rafael Amador · January 4th, 2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Terrance,

The Canon HV30, HV40 and possibly others actually output 4:4:4 over HDMI and the nanoFlash accepts and processes the signal using only the 4:2:2 material for recording.

Dear Dan,
8b 4:4:4 YUV means 2.5 Gbs out of the HDMI, so very close to a Dual-link SDI.
Can you confirm that?
Best,
rafael

Dan Keaton · January 4th, 2011, 08:35 AM

Dear Rafael,

I can confirm that Canon informed us that the output of the HV30/HV40 is 4:4:4 and this is via HDMI.

I have not personally tested this.

Dave Sperling · January 4th, 2011, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrance Odette

Any tips for compact powered submixers to the 1/8 input on nanoflash?

Hello Terrance,
I'm a huge fan of the Mix Pre from Sound Devices. Though it's a little bigger than the 'ride-on input adapters', it is exceptionally clean with wonderful preamps - and excellent limiters that keep suddenly loud audio usable when my older field mixer would be off the scale with distortion. I haven't gone strainght into the NanoFlash from it (I use it with an EX1, so I normally get the Nano audio from the HD-SDI), but it has both balanced XLR line outs and an (unbalanced) 3.5mmm trs line out plug that I've often used to feed a Sony PCM-M10 recorder for transcriptions. Plus it runs on 2 - AA batteries (for a very long time when I use the Energizer lithiums, even when using it to power 48v phantom mics)

Gerardo Campos · January 4th, 2011, 09:54 AM

Terrance,
I use a Lilliput monitor via HDMI, is a great monitor, but is not full progresive, so if you try to play the nanoflash files the monitor go blue. But have a nice resolution to make a nice focus work. Any way, here I live you a test of chroma key, is a simple and fast chroma, no perfect chroma background but works, and I made a 9x amplification of the videos to see the real detail in the edges:

www.gecofilms.cl

Dan Keaton · January 4th, 2011, 09:57 AM

Dear Friends,

I am a huge fan of Sound Devices products.

I have a 302 mixer and a 744t recorder.

Both are outstanding products as are their other products.

The nanoFlash analog in is compatible with the Tape Out from most any mixer. This is usually a Stereo or two-channel unbalanced audio output, perfect for the Analog Audio input of the nanoFlash.

And many tape outs are 3.5mm mini-jack (1/8" inch), thus a simple low cost cable is all that is needed.

Rafael Amador · January 4th, 2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Rafael,

I can confirm that Canon informed us that the output of the HV30/HV40 is 4:4:4 and this is via HDMI.

I have not personally tested this.

Dear Dan,
I've mixed my self up about the data rate.
That HDMI would be able to carry 444 RGB not only at 8b, but 36b and even more.
Amazing.
Cheers,
rafael

Terrance Odette · January 5th, 2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Terrance,

So, what mics or audio sources do you have, so I can be of more assistance?

Hi Dan

Don't know what audio sources I will go for yet. I imagine I will rent a boom and mic as I am not my Rodes will be good enough.
Terry

Terrance Odette · January 5th, 2011, 06:19 AM

Thanks for the audio tips. I will look into the Sound Device.

Terry

Terrance Odette · January 5th, 2011, 06:23 AM

Gerardo,
Thanks for the key demo. By chance have you tried any more experimenting with the under and over crank. On a show I work on we are always doing the 60i source then field split for slow mo. It's on HD CAM. Might try the nanoflash and see if it can be done that way.

Dan Keaton · January 5th, 2011, 08:59 AM

Dear Terrance,

I am not familar with the term "Field Split".

Terrance Odette · January 5th, 2011, 09:20 AM

Maybe I am saying it wrong. The process is this: shoot 60i, which then has 2 fields per frame. In After FX or Motion (Apple) you then make each field an independent frame thus making your 29.97 (60i) into 60 FPS. Cheater's Sow Mo. You fix the chroma loss in colour correction.

Gerardo Campos · January 5th, 2011, 06:15 PM

Dear Terrance,
The siganal of the nex-vg10 is progresive, and put in a 60i conteiner, that why you have 60i final files from the AVCHD, so when you analyse the material in post you will find 2 identical fields, then gonna be much easy to make the prosses you mentioned before.
www.gecofilms.cl

January 4th, 2011, 06:26 AM	#46
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Terrance, As I understand your posts, by Precompression, you mean that the signal out of the NEX-VG10 is uncompressed. And yes, that would be true. I expect the signal out of the Sony NEX-VG10 to be 4:2:2 uncompressed. It could actually be 4:4:4 uncompressed also. The Canon HV30, HV40 and possibly others actually output 4:4:4 over HDMI and the nanoFlash accepts and processes the signal using only the 4:2:2 material for recording. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 4th, 2011, 07:28 AM	#48
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Terrance, The nanoFlash can accept: One Balance Mic/Line Input Two Unbalanced Mic/Line Inputs These analog inputs are recorded at 24-bits / 48K. The nanoFlash does not provide Phantom Power. Thus, certain mics can be connected to the nanoFlash directly, others may need a cable, or others may need an adapter that provides Phantom Power. The Juicedlink and Beachtek products could solve certain scenarios. But many situations may not need an adapter. So, what mics or audio sources do you have, so I can be of more assistance? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 4th, 2011, 08:35 AM	#50
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Rafael, I can confirm that Canon informed us that the output of the HV30/HV40 is 4:4:4 and this is via HDMI. I have not personally tested this. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 4th, 2011, 09:54 AM	#52
Gerardo Campos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: santiago Chile Posts: 28	nanoflash + nex-vg10 Terrance, I use a Lilliput monitor via HDMI, is a great monitor, but is not full progresive, so if you try to play the nanoflash files the monitor go blue. But have a nice resolution to make a nice focus work. Any way, here I live you a test of chroma key, is a simple and fast chroma, no perfect chroma background but works, and I made a 9x amplification of the videos to see the real detail in the edges: crop 9x chroma nex-vg10 and nanoflash on Vimeo www.gecofilms.cl Last edited by Gerardo Campos; January 4th, 2011 at 11:02 AM.

January 4th, 2011, 09:57 AM	#53
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, I am a huge fan of Sound Devices products. I have a 302 mixer and a 744t recorder. Both are outstanding products as are their other products. The nanoFlash analog in is compatible with the Tape Out from most any mixer. This is usually a Stereo or two-channel unbalanced audio output, perfect for the Analog Audio input of the nanoFlash. And many tape outs are 3.5mm mini-jack (1/8" inch), thus a simple low cost cable is all that is needed. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 4th, 2011, 06:39 AM	#47
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Yes, uncompressed is what I meant. With regards to the HV20. I have been using one for a few years and with the nano in the last while. The Nex VG10 beats it out sensor-wise big time. Just in detail alone. I am going to start playing with the audio on nanoflash. Only need mono or 2 track at best. Any tips for compact powered submixers to the 1/8 input on nanoflash?

January 5th, 2011, 06:19 AM	#56
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Thanks for the audio tips. I will look into the Sound Device. Terry

January 5th, 2011, 06:23 AM	#57
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Gerardo, Thanks for the key demo. By chance have you tried any more experimenting with the under and over crank. On a show I work on we are always doing the 60i source then field split for slow mo. It's on HD CAM. Might try the nanoflash and see if it can be done that way.

January 5th, 2011, 08:59 AM	#58
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Terrance, I am not familar with the term "Field Split". __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 5th, 2011, 09:20 AM	#59
Terrance Odette Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hamilton Posts: 29	Maybe I am saying it wrong. The process is this: shoot 60i, which then has 2 fields per frame. In After FX or Motion (Apple) you then make each field an independent frame thus making your 29.97 (60i) into 60 FPS. Cheater's Sow Mo. You fix the chroma loss in colour correction.

January 5th, 2011, 06:15 PM	#60
Gerardo Campos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: santiago Chile Posts: 28	nanoflash + nex-vg10 Dear Terrance, The siganal of the nex-vg10 is progresive, and put in a 60i conteiner, that why you have 60i final files from the AVCHD, so when you analyse the material in post you will find 2 identical fields, then gonna be much easy to make the prosses you mentioned before. www.gecofilms.cl