Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?

[Paul Curtis]

I'm curious about this too.

I believe the VG10 to be seriously compromised as a video camera because i don't believe it has a OLPF designed for video. I suspect that the aliasing spoken above a few posts ago is not compression but aliasing moire. I've seen this on some full size sample videos.

The key to this is the fact that sony says you can take stills with it! 14MP stills. Well if you can take stills then it doesn't have a filter so it's going to be recording as much aliasing as the little cameras.

(i've been thinking about getting a mini nex for a walk around camera with rangefinder lenses but i've been curious about the VG10 too)

cheers
paul

[Gerardo Campos]

the problem is not the full size sensor, you can see RedOne or others cameras that take the image from the sensor and record it like it is in full size or 4k and don't pressent moire or alliasing, but in the down-size process the image sufer this problem; there is in the market some filters to eliminate or reduce alliasing, and work very well. But the thing I must concern about it is if the HDMI output is really pre-compression or not.

[Paul Curtis]

Gerardo,

The RED sensor is completely different to mass produced dSLR sensors like NEX, massive price difference too.

I don't believe there's a photo orientated sensor that can read out fast enough to scale full resolution frames down to HD size. At the moment they're all skipping lines/columns in order to get the data rate needed for 24/25/60 fps.

Panasonic seem to be closest with their m43 but i don't think even that is scaling, perhaps the GH2 is?

Am i wrong?

As for the HDMI i would love to know. Can someone just plug their NEX into a TV and wave it around and look for compression artefacts!? I'll grab one of those little NEXs soon enough and try myself.

cheers
paul

[Aaron Newsome]

Originally Posted by Paul Curtis

I don't believe there's a photo orientated sensor that can read out fast enough to scale full resolution frames down to HD size. At the moment they're all skipping lines/columns in order to get the data rate needed for 24/25/60 fps.

Thomson Viper camera sensor is 3x 9.2 Megapixel (That's 27 megapixels of data), scaled to 1080p in realtime.

If a DSLR took 27 megapixels of data and scaled it to 1080p at video frame rates, in real time, it would probably be as big, expensive and power hungry as a Viper.

DSLR do an amazing job for what they are though.

[Paul Curtis]

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

Thomson Viper camera sensor is 3x 9.2 Megapixel (That's 27 megapixels of data), scaled to 1080p in realtime.

If a DSLR took 27 megapixels of data and scaled it to 1080p at video frame rates, in real time, it would probably be as big, expensive and power hungry as a Viper.

DSLR do an amazing job for what they are though.

I did say excluding dedicated video sensors :)

Although that's 3 separate sensors, whereas we're talking single 14 megapixel compared to a mere 9 of the viper and a dSLR has to debayer full res *before* it can scale. Plus i wonder whether the viper sensor combines the data in hardware before the readout. You never get to see the full res from them.

cheers
paul

[Rafael Amador]

Originally Posted by Gerardo Campos

Dear Dan,
in the camera footage tou must find some compresion blocks; if you have the same in the nanoflash footage, then the HDMI is after-compression, if is not is pre-compression." Thanks

I don't think the HDMI would out put "post-compression".
That means would mean that the processor would be compressing (to AVCHD on recording) and de-compressing (AVCHD to HDMI) at the same time time. Too much, IMO, for that processor.
Would be easier to route that signal directly to the HDMI.
rafael

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Rafael,

I agree.

It is logical to assume that Codec Modules work in either encode or decode mode, not both encode and decode at the same time.

I know for a fact that our Sony Codec Module can do encode or decode, not both at the same time.

[Terrance Odette]

Dan
Your bottom line on Nex VG10 out via HDMI to nanoflash? Compared to say HV20/30 up to EX1 or 3.
Terry

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Terrance,

I would love to help, but I have not tested the Nex VG10, sorry.

[Luben Izov]

Originally Posted by Terrance Odette

Dan
Your bottom line on Nex VG10 out via HDMI to nanoflash? Compared to say HV20/30 up to EX1 or 3.
Terry

Hi Terrance,
I've shot a lot of material with HV40 with NF at 50Mbps and clean EX1, a whole documentary that way and the end results of HV40 with NF at 50 are much much better then EX1 at 35 Mbps. The image, the quality and the colours. Reason is HV40 via HDMI provides 8bit 4:4:4 colour space uncompressed (if I remember corectly), compared to EX1 4:2:0. That is a huge difference increadably noticible. I use HV40 with DOF adapter or naked with zoom half way in for off focus (DOF ilusion) back ground. HV40 does shoot 24F (NF does the pulldown) and I have 23.976 on the NF. I believe HV40 was the best and last of Canon, with so many fitures in that smal price. HV40 with NF it's an increadable combination for a second camera and places you can't place your large primery recording unit (car trunk for instance) and it is much much better choise then 5/7D for video.
Cheers

[Terrance Odette]

Luben
Thanks for the reply. Good information. I have been using my HV20 and NF for small inserts on some TV shows that where shot with HDcam and agree how great the combo is. I now have the NEW VG10E (25p) and intend to use it for a feature project with the NF. I jumped the gun and bought the camera and now have to see if it was a good choice. Sony held back a few things that Canon managed to give freely with HV series. The NEX VG10 turns off EVF and LCD wen connected to HDMI being the obvious one, the 24p being the other. I wanted the bigger sensor and removable lens. Even when I get one of the new EVF from redrock it is less expensive than the AF100. I am looking for input now on how best to make my new system work. Maybe best if I start a new thread and see if there are others out there trying to do the same.

[Rafael Amador]

"The NEX VG10 turns off EVF and LCD wen connected to HDMI being the obvious one, the 24p being the other. I wanted the bigger sensor and removable lens. Even when I get one of the new EVF from redrock it is less expensive than the AF100".
The only similarity between the SONY and the PANA is about having "bigger sensor and removable lens".
For the rest, the SONY is a domestic camcorder while the PANA is a professional machine.
rafael

[Terrance Odette]

I shot some ftg on Saturday. Not perfect test situations. Just seeing if my rig worked.
NexVG10E (25p)
Canon FD lens adapter with Tokina 28mm/2.8
NanoFlash (140mbit, I Frame at 25p)
Lower-end Marshal monitor.
Shot at 5.6 with no ND, camera was set to manual with 0db gain and 50 shutter.
It is a brief shot from CU to WS through two chain-link fence with people walking by. I was looking for artifacts and morie. I exported two versions from original one uprez to Prorez HQ size: 750 mb and one XDCAM HD422 at 50mbits size: 220 mb. I can also do an output to order. I can post or am willing to "yousendit" it to a few interested people.
To my eye on a 120 " projection screen I was impressed with the colour and lack of artifacts. If anything, I think the monitor was the poor player. I hope to fix that with one of the new EVF coming out.
Terry

[Gerardo Campos]

pleasse can you send the file via yousendit to videos@gecoproducciones.cl or put it in vimeo, so I can test it, because I want to buy the nex-vg10, but I need some power reasson to do it and work with my nanoflash. Thanks

[Gerardo Campos]

sorry, I didn't mention, I work in PC no Mac, so when I tryed to see the file that you send me nothing happened; can you send me the MPEG xdcam file please; thank you so much, videos@gecoproducciones.cl