Avid AMA support for nanoFlash at DVinfo.net

Ted O'Brien · April 21st, 2010, 09:43 AM

Hello everyone,

With all the news that came out at NAB about MC 5.0, I was wondering if CD had any announcements about AMA support for nanoFlash files? Seeing all the native support for ProRes and R3D has me dreaming of the same for the XDCam HD nano files. I plan on upgrading all our suites to MC 5.0 when it's released so I can test then.

Thanks!

Peter Moretti · April 21st, 2010, 12:20 PM

I believe Avid currently works w/ nanoFlash files, no transcode needed.

Mark Job · April 21st, 2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

I believe Avid currently works w/ nanoFlash files, no transcode needed.

...Hi Peter and Ted: This is correct. Avid Media Composer works with the files from the XDR & Nano because these devices are using a hardware Sony XDCAM HD 4:2:2 Full Raster HD encoder. You must set your XDR or Nano to .MXF files and if you so desire to record in Long GOP, then you must set your bit rate to no more than 50 Mbps. If you want to use files recorded in a higher bit rate in Avid, then you can use I-Frame recording scheme and a bit rate of 100 or higher Mbps.

Max Petin · April 22nd, 2010, 06:05 AM

Is Avid MC 5 really not able to handle more than 50 Mbit/s MPEG II? We all know the 100 Mbit/s codec is the sweetspot of the Nanoflash... If MC 5 can't handle that, it's useless for most nanoflash applications... that's really disappointing.

Perrone Ford · April 22nd, 2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Petin

Is Avid MC 5 really not able to handle more than 50 Mbit/s MPEG II? We all know the 100 Mbit/s codec is the sweetspot of the Nanoflash... If MC 5 can't handle that, it's useless for most nanoflash applications... that's really disappointing.

Re-read what he said. Avid CAN handle higher then 50Mbps but it has to be i-frame, not long-GOP.

Max Petin · April 22nd, 2010, 02:24 PM

Hi Perrone, you are right with I-frame, but long-gop 100 Mbits is the superior codec everybody likes to shoot with.

Mark Job · April 22nd, 2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Petin

Hi Perrone, you are right with I-frame, but long-gop 100 Mbits is the superior codec everybody likes to shoot with.

...Hey Max: Long GOP is only superior in that it can give the same resolution with a smaller file size. This is not to say that I-Frame is visually inferior to Long GOP per se. In fact, Long GOP and I-Frame produce identical image quality results once you get to data rates of 220 Mbps or higher (280 Mbps).

Peter Moretti · April 24th, 2010, 02:38 PM

He wants to know if MC can use 100 Long GOP, not be convinced out of using it. Seems fair enough to me.

Mark Job · April 24th, 2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

He wants to know if MC can use 100 Long GOP, not be convinced out of using it. Seems fair enough to me.

....Fine, then the answer would be a big no. Long GOP 100 Mbps is not supported in Avid Media Composer.

Max Petin · April 25th, 2010, 03:38 AM

Hi Peter and Max, thanks for replying. I was just a bit sad cause I just bought the Mediacomposer and am about to buy the nanoflash. Looks like we have to wait a little until Avid might implement the 100Mbit/s MPEG II codec..

Mark Job · April 25th, 2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Petin

Hi Peter and Max, thanks for replying. I was just a bit sad cause I just bought the Mediacomposer and am about to buy the nanoflash. Looks like we have to wait a little until Avid might implement the 100Mbit/s MPEG II codec..

...Hey Max: Don't hold your breath on that one ;-) Avid is notorious for its *slow* adoption of new codecs and formats. This slow adoption is one of many's main points of criticism for which the new Media Composer 5.0 is playing catch up for.

Ted O'Brien · April 26th, 2010, 05:17 PM

We use the nano with MC 4.0.5 everyday. I was specifically interested in the new features announced at NAB for MC 5 and it's native support for R3D and QT via AMA. Apparently when you attach a source drive/card with compatible media, Avid automatically creates a bin and fill it with clips; no import necessary. I was just curious if this was going to be the case with the nano media. We're upgrading as soon as it's released so I'll be happy to report how the media is handled then.

Peter Moretti · April 27th, 2010, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Petin

Hi Peter and Max, thanks for replying. I was just a bit sad cause I just bought the Mediacomposer and am about to buy the nanoflash. Looks like we have to wait a little until Avid might implement the 100Mbit/s MPEG II codec..

Max, you could in the meantime use the I-frame only vesions. I have to think the 220 I-frame will look as good if not better than the 100 Long-GOP.

Mark Job · April 27th, 2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Max, you could in the meantime use the I-frame only vesions. I have to think the 220 I-frame will look as good if not better than the 100 Long-GOP.

....Yes. This will work, as I wrote earlier in this thread. I-Frame is a way to get Long GOP quality in AMC without the Long GOP incompatibility issues of AMC.

Dan Keaton · April 27th, 2010, 01:39 PM

Dear Friends,

We will be very happy when Avid supports all of our Long-GOP bit-rates.

While I do not have any actual knowledge of their code, I strongly feel that this is a very easy fix for them.

In Avid, it appears that they have a memory buffer to hold a "Group of Pictures". This buffer is larger enough to hold the entire GOP, but only if the bit-rate is 50 Mbps or slower.

Above 50 Mbps, the total size of the GOP is larger than their currently allocated memory buffer.

Thus, when one uses any of our bit-rates higher than 50 Mbps, the entire GOP is not contained in the buffer. This upsets the Avid program, as it was expected to be able to go back to the first frame or any frame in the current GOP. Thus, the Avid error message.

It could be as simple as Avid recompliing their program after increasing the size of the GOP memory buffer.

Or it could be a major hurdle if they can not increase the size of the memory buffer for some technical reason.

In any case, we will be very happy when Avid addresses this issue.

April 21st, 2010, 09:43 AM	#1
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	Avid AMA support for nanoFlash Hello everyone, With all the news that came out at NAB about MC 5.0, I was wondering if CD had any announcements about AMA support for nanoFlash files? Seeing all the native support for ProRes and R3D has me dreaming of the same for the XDCam HD nano files. I plan on upgrading all our suites to MC 5.0 when it's released so I can test then. Thanks!

April 21st, 2010, 12:20 PM	#2
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	I believe Avid currently works w/ nanoFlash files, no transcode needed. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

April 24th, 2010, 02:38 PM	#8
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	He wants to know if MC can use 100 Long GOP, not be convinced out of using it. Seems fair enough to me. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

April 27th, 2010, 01:39 PM	#15
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, We will be very happy when Avid supports all of our Long-GOP bit-rates. While I do not have any actual knowledge of their code, I strongly feel that this is a very easy fix for them. In Avid, it appears that they have a memory buffer to hold a "Group of Pictures". This buffer is larger enough to hold the entire GOP, but only if the bit-rate is 50 Mbps or slower. Above 50 Mbps, the total size of the GOP is larger than their currently allocated memory buffer. Thus, when one uses any of our bit-rates higher than 50 Mbps, the entire GOP is not contained in the buffer. This upsets the Avid program, as it was expected to be able to go back to the first frame or any frame in the current GOP. Thus, the Avid error message. It could be as simple as Avid recompliing their program after increasing the size of the GOP memory buffer. Or it could be a major hurdle if they can not increase the size of the memory buffer for some technical reason. In any case, we will be very happy when Avid addresses this issue. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 22nd, 2010, 06:05 AM	#4
Max Petin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Namsos Norway Posts: 7	Is Avid MC 5 really not able to handle more than 50 Mbit/s MPEG II? We all know the 100 Mbit/s codec is the sweetspot of the Nanoflash... If MC 5 can't handle that, it's useless for most nanoflash applications... that's really disappointing.

April 22nd, 2010, 02:24 PM	#6
Max Petin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Namsos Norway Posts: 7	Hi Perrone, you are right with I-frame, but long-gop 100 Mbits is the superior codec everybody likes to shoot with.

April 25th, 2010, 03:38 AM	#10
Max Petin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Namsos Norway Posts: 7	Hi Peter and Max, thanks for replying. I was just a bit sad cause I just bought the Mediacomposer and am about to buy the nanoflash. Looks like we have to wait a little until Avid might implement the 100Mbit/s MPEG II codec..

April 26th, 2010, 05:17 PM	#12
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	We use the nano with MC 4.0.5 everyday. I was specifically interested in the new features announced at NAB for MC 5 and it's native support for R3D and QT via AMA. Apparently when you attach a source drive/card with compatible media, Avid automatically creates a bin and fill it with clips; no import necessary. I was just curious if this was going to be the case with the nano media. We're upgrading as soon as it's released so I'll be happy to report how the media is handled then.