Panasonic AF100 and Nanoflash at DVinfo.net

Ed David · April 16th, 2010, 04:39 PM

Jan Critterdon said that the uncompressed coming out of the HD-SDI port will work with the nanoflash . I think this 4/3 in camera combined with the nanoflash will be in essence the Red Scarlet everyone dreams of. Around 4k acquisition and ability to capture to a great codec that you can edit in 1080p.

Please I hope that I can hook your device up to this camera that's going to be as revolutionary as the DVX100 was back in the early days.

Henry Olonga · April 17th, 2010, 04:37 AM

Hey Ed - I believe that this is possible as Jan dealt with this. It is it's biggest selling point.This will make the camera a camera capable of capturing imgaes as good as what - close to what a Panavision Gensis produces perhaps?

I asked whether it was 8 bit or 10 bit and never got a direct answer - will ask again. So perhaps £ 5000 for the camcorder and £ 2300 for a Nano and you get a ready to shoot full HD powerhouse capable of producing stunning images. There will be no excuses now.....

Luben Izov · April 17th, 2010, 11:02 AM

Hi Henry,
I looked at this presentation the other day and yes is a very good camera and with the nanoFlash would be awesome! I think you would be able to find an answer to your questions just by watching this video...

FreshDV NAB 2010 - Panasonic AF100, 3D and HPX-370 at FreshDV

Bruce Schultz · April 17th, 2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed David

Around 4k acquisition and ability to capture to a great codec that you can edit in 1080p. .

Just curious, how do you get to a 4K acquisition with a codec (AVCPRO/AVCCAM) that only supports 1920x1080? The NanoFlash as well only records 4:2:2 XDCAM HD @ 1920x1080. So how do you get 4K? Are you assuming that the larger chip (APS-C or H) size gets you there, or is Panasonic telling you that the HDSDI tap will send out a 4K signal?

Dan Keaton · April 17th, 2010, 12:25 PM

Dear Bruce,

It was nice meeting you at NAB.

HD-SDI is either 1280 x 720 (720 mode) or 1920 x 1080 (1080 mode).

If a camera has HD-SDI then they have to output a signal that meets these standards.

If one has a 4K camera, and a HD-SDI output, then the camera must downres.

Rafael Amador · April 18th, 2010, 06:34 AM

Right.
That is what we want, but without the internal recorder system (16b audio?).
Good lens, good captor and processor, and HD/SD-SDI out; then the recorder of your choice.
With products like the NANO, Ki-Pro, etc in the market, i see the camera business slipping from the hands of the big manufacturers.
rafael

Henry Olonga · April 18th, 2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luben Izov

Hi Henry,
I looked at this presentation the other day and yes is a very good camera and with the nanoFlash would be awesome! I think you would be able to find an answer to your questions just by watching this video...

FreshDV NAB 2010 - Panasonic AF100, 3D and HPX-370 at FreshDV

Thanks Luben,but that does not give us an indication as to whether the HD-SDI is 8 bit or 10 bit unless I missed it.Too early to say perhaps. Jan keeps saying that H264 is the best longop codec out there.......I reckon CD have something to say about that!!!!!!
Best wishes.

Dan Keaton · April 18th, 2010, 04:47 PM

Dear Henry,

In our opinion, based on substantial field experience:

H.264 at lower bit-rates is more efficient than MPEG-2.

The nanoFlash gives you a very wide variety of bit-rates and quality choices.

The Panasonic camera appears to be limited to a maximum of 24 Mbps. We offer bit-rates up to 280 Mbps, up to 180 Mbps in Long-GOP.

It would be tough to argue that 24 Mbps H.264 is superior in quality to 180 Mbps Long-GOP, or 280 Mbps I-Frame Only.

But, most importantly, MPEG-2 is easier to edit.

Rafael Amador · April 18th, 2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Olonga

Thanks Luben,but that does not give us an indication as to whether the HD-SDI is 8 bit or 10 bit unless I missed it.Too early to say perhaps. Jan keeps saying that H264 is the best longop codec out there.......I reckon CD have something to say about that!!!!!!
Best wishes.

As pointed by Dan, H264 is better than MPEG-2 for low data rate compression (web video like).
No advantage when you are working with enough data rate.
In fact h264 is much complicated to compress and de-compress than MPEG-2.

HD/SD-SDI output 10b YUV, and the "AVCPRO/AVCCA" can support 4K.
rafael

Henry Olonga · April 19th, 2010, 01:54 PM

Thanks for your input guys - my nanoflash produces images that absolutely smash the AVCHD of the HFS10 so I don't believe that H264 is superior when put up against Nanoflash's best bit rates. It's just not possible but perhaps she was referring to a given price and performance point.

Dean Harrington · April 20th, 2010, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed David

Jan Critterdon said that the uncompressed coming out of the HD-SDI port will work with the nanoflash . I think this 4/3 in camera combined with the nanoflash will be in essence the Red Scarlet everyone dreams of. Around 4k acquisition and ability to capture to a great codec that you can edit in 1080p.

Please I hope that I can hook your device up to this camera that's going to be as revolutionary as the DVX100 was back in the early days.

Good to see Panasonic back on track with another, highly likely, industry uplight for indi-film makers. I think it's going to be very interesting next Fall with the Scarlet and this cam coming out.

Aaron Newsome · April 20th, 2010, 10:18 PM

I would bet the house that the AF100 H.264 is 8bit. It's a tossup though whether the HD-SDI is 8 or 10bit though. Doesn't matter with the nano or XDR though. 8bit is the best you can do.

Rafael Amador · April 21st, 2010, 12:50 AM

The H264 at 24Mbps is 8b 420.
No sense to make 10b or 422 at such data rate.
Cameras output 10b through the SDI.(the process is done at 12 or 14b).
How PANASONIC gonna put 8b SDI output, when 200$$ cameras output 10b Unc?
Panasonic knows that people look at this camera with something like the NANO or Ki-Pro in mind.
rafael

Aaron Newsome · April 28th, 2010, 09:39 AM

Yes you can have a camera that has 4k worth of data collected at the sensor, and it downrezes that data into a 1080p package in real time. Entirely possible.

Dean Harrington · May 11th, 2010, 04:54 PM

There was a system developed for the DVX-100 some years ago that took the image information directly from the censors and delivered high resolution images off that censor. Any one remember what happened that that delivery system and what it was called? I could be wrong but I believe it was 4.4.4 deliverable? I also recall it required a modification to the camera. The concept and/or technology was bought out from the original developer (seller signed a non-disclosure agreement I believe) by an unnamed company and the whole thing has disappeared from the camera making scene.

April 16th, 2010, 04:39 PM	#1
Ed David Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 119	Panasonic AF100 and Nanoflash Jan Critterdon said that the uncompressed coming out of the HD-SDI port will work with the nanoflash . I think this 4/3 in camera combined with the nanoflash will be in essence the Red Scarlet everyone dreams of. Around 4k acquisition and ability to capture to a great codec that you can edit in 1080p. Please I hope that I can hook your device up to this camera that's going to be as revolutionary as the DVX100 was back in the early days.

April 17th, 2010, 04:37 AM	#2
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Hey Ed - I believe that this is possible as Jan dealt with this. It is it's biggest selling point.This will make the camera a camera capable of capturing imgaes as good as what - close to what a Panavision Gensis produces perhaps? I asked whether it was 8 bit or 10 bit and never got a direct answer - will ask again. So perhaps £ 5000 for the camcorder and £ 2300 for a Nano and you get a ready to shoot full HD powerhouse capable of producing stunning images. There will be no excuses now..... __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

April 17th, 2010, 12:25 PM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bruce, It was nice meeting you at NAB. HD-SDI is either 1280 x 720 (720 mode) or 1920 x 1080 (1080 mode). If a camera has HD-SDI then they have to output a signal that meets these standards. If one has a 4K camera, and a HD-SDI output, then the camera must downres. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 18th, 2010, 04:47 PM	#8
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Henry, In our opinion, based on substantial field experience: H.264 at lower bit-rates is more efficient than MPEG-2. The nanoFlash gives you a very wide variety of bit-rates and quality choices. The Panasonic camera appears to be limited to a maximum of 24 Mbps. We offer bit-rates up to 280 Mbps, up to 180 Mbps in Long-GOP. It would be tough to argue that 24 Mbps H.264 is superior in quality to 180 Mbps Long-GOP, or 280 Mbps I-Frame Only. But, most importantly, MPEG-2 is easier to edit. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 19th, 2010, 01:54 PM	#10
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Thanks for your input guys - my nanoflash produces images that absolutely smash the AVCHD of the HFS10 so I don't believe that H264 is superior when put up against Nanoflash's best bit rates. It's just not possible but perhaps she was referring to a given price and performance point. __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

April 17th, 2010, 11:02 AM	#3
Luben Izov Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: White Rock Posts: 254	Hi Henry, I looked at this presentation the other day and yes is a very good camera and with the nanoFlash would be awesome! I think you would be able to find an answer to your questions just by watching this video... FreshDV NAB 2010 - Panasonic AF100, 3D and HPX-370 at FreshDV

April 18th, 2010, 06:34 AM	#6
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	Right. That is what we want, but without the internal recorder system (16b audio?). Good lens, good captor and processor, and HD/SD-SDI out; then the recorder of your choice. With products like the NANO, Ki-Pro, etc in the market, i see the camera business slipping from the hands of the big manufacturers. rafael

April 20th, 2010, 10:18 PM	#12
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	I would bet the house that the AF100 H.264 is 8bit. It's a tossup though whether the HD-SDI is 8 or 10bit though. Doesn't matter with the nano or XDR though. 8bit is the best you can do.

April 21st, 2010, 12:50 AM	#13
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	The H264 at 24Mbps is 8b 420. No sense to make 10b or 422 at such data rate. Cameras output 10b through the SDI.(the process is done at 12 or 14b). How PANASONIC gonna put 8b SDI output, when 200$$ cameras output 10b Unc? Panasonic knows that people look at this camera with something like the NANO or Ki-Pro in mind. rafael

April 28th, 2010, 09:39 AM	#14
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Yes you can have a camera that has 4k worth of data collected at the sensor, and it downrezes that data into a 1080p package in real time. Entirely possible.

May 11th, 2010, 04:54 PM	#15
Dean Harrington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 898	I remember ... There was a system developed for the DVX-100 some years ago that took the image information directly from the censors and delivered high resolution images off that censor. Any one remember what happened that that delivery system and what it was called? I could be wrong but I believe it was 4.4.4 deliverable? I also recall it required a modification to the camera. The concept and/or technology was bought out from the original developer (seller signed a non-disclosure agreement I believe) by an unnamed company and the whole thing has disappeared from the camera making scene.