Nanoflash & bitrates question at DVinfo.net

Simon Denny · February 27th, 2010, 10:14 PM

This will sound like a silly question but I'm having one of those moments were I can't work this out.
It relates to bitrates from the Nanoflash and how this will improve my cameras image to Nano and the final render.
If I use my Sony F350 in standard definition I get @ 720/576 25Mbits pal.

If I use the Nanoflash and the F350 I get a choice of bitrates and lets say i want to get close to the old Digibeta which was I think 90Mbits I would use a bitrate of 100.
Now I know I can't get anymore resolution in Vertical & Horizontal lines for SD, so what is the extra information the Nano is recording if I go to 100Mbits vs the 25Mbits I get out of the F350.
I know the colour space hits 4,2,2.

I told you it's a stupid question but if I don't ask someone I'll never know.

Cheers

Dave Sperling · February 27th, 2010, 10:56 PM

Hi Simon,
Haven't really played with the SD flavors, but it's my understanding that you are getting a better compression system (IMX) in addition to recording 4:2:2 as opposed to the DVcam system used by the 350's (which would be 4:1:1 or 4:2:0, depending on NTSC or PAL?).

Dan Keaton · February 28th, 2010, 12:01 AM

Dear Simon,

With the nanoFlash, in SD, we support IMX 30, IMX 40, and IMX 50.

IMX 30 and IMX 50 were recently addded in our Public Beta 1.5.31.

Production firmware, 1.1.154 only supports IMX 50 at this moment.

Here is a nice explanation if IMX formats:

Betacam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the nanoFlash you can specify a bit-rate for both HD and SD.

When you feed the nanoFlash SD-SDI, we use the SD bit rates, 30 / 40 / 50 Mbps, 100 Mbps is not an option for SD.

Note: If you choose our "MPG" format in the System Menu (as opposed to QT or MXF), and feed SD-SDI to the nanoFlash, then you have options for 5/6/7/8/9 Mbps for creating DVD's. This creates a "pre-rendered" ".MPG" file for SD DVD's.

If you choose "MPG" format and feed HD-SDI, then you have bit-rate options for HD Blu-ray disks.

Alister Chapman · March 4th, 2010, 02:43 PM

IMX50 is a fantastic SD codec. In Europe it is very popular amongst broadcasters. It is comparable to Digibeta in terms of image quality but offers a smaller file size. Most pro edit applications support IMX50. The improved color space makes quite a difference in interlace, less of a difference in progressive.

Simon Denny · March 5th, 2010, 01:15 AM

I thought the Nano would be great for SD with the IMX50 codec.
Is there anyway Alister or anyone that has a Nano for someone to shoot with a half inch chip Camera in SD and post a SD grab @ 25mbps and also a grab using the Nano at IMX50.

If not, oh well.

Cheers

David Issko · March 5th, 2010, 04:37 AM

Simon,

Last year I had to shoot a 4x3 SD corporate awards program in November 09, which required several category clips that were shown on a large (you guessed it) 4x3 screen in one of the theatres at Monash Uni (no doubt you have heard of Monash).

I shot the material (which was has now been passed on to the client) using the EX3 and nano in IMX 50. The pictures looked very nice, very clean with vivid colours. Looked very nice and each clip was well received by the audience.

Sorry I do not have a copy of it but for me, a 4x3 SD program in 2009/2010 was not one to keep in my showreel.

This year it will be in 16x9.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Dave Sperling · March 5th, 2010, 07:45 AM

Hello Simon,
As I recall, you could use the 1/2" disc-based PDW-355 (or 350) or the EX1r, or possibly the 2/3" PDW-350 (with DVcam recording option). You could record internally from any of them at Dvcam speed while sending SD-SDI to the SDI output and then recording that on the Nano.
The older EX1 / EX3, though allowing you to output SD-SDI to the SDI output connector, will record only HD internally to the cards.
Best,
Dave S.

February 27th, 2010, 10:14 PM	#1
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Nanoflash & bitrates question This will sound like a silly question but I'm having one of those moments were I can't work this out. It relates to bitrates from the Nanoflash and how this will improve my cameras image to Nano and the final render. If I use my Sony F350 in standard definition I get @ 720/576 25Mbits pal. If I use the Nanoflash and the F350 I get a choice of bitrates and lets say i want to get close to the old Digibeta which was I think 90Mbits I would use a bitrate of 100. Now I know I can't get anymore resolution in Vertical & Horizontal lines for SD, so what is the extra information the Nano is recording if I go to 100Mbits vs the 25Mbits I get out of the F350. I know the colour space hits 4,2,2. I told you it's a stupid question but if I don't ask someone I'll never know. Cheers

February 28th, 2010, 12:01 AM	#3
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Simon, With the nanoFlash, in SD, we support IMX 30, IMX 40, and IMX 50. IMX 30 and IMX 50 were recently addded in our Public Beta 1.5.31. Production firmware, 1.1.154 only supports IMX 50 at this moment. Here is a nice explanation if IMX formats: Betacam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the nanoFlash you can specify a bit-rate for both HD and SD. When you feed the nanoFlash SD-SDI, we use the SD bit rates, 30 / 40 / 50 Mbps, 100 Mbps is not an option for SD. Note: If you choose our "MPG" format in the System Menu (as opposed to QT or MXF), and feed SD-SDI to the nanoFlash, then you have options for 5/6/7/8/9 Mbps for creating DVD's. This creates a "pre-rendered" ".MPG" file for SD DVD's. If you choose "MPG" format and feed HD-SDI, then you have bit-rate options for HD Blu-ray disks. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 4th, 2010, 02:43 PM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	IMX50 is a fantastic SD codec. In Europe it is very popular amongst broadcasters. It is comparable to Digibeta in terms of image quality but offers a smaller file size. Most pro edit applications support IMX50. The improved color space makes quite a difference in interlace, less of a difference in progressive. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

March 5th, 2010, 04:37 AM	#6
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	Simon, Last year I had to shoot a 4x3 SD corporate awards program in November 09, which required several category clips that were shown on a large (you guessed it) 4x3 screen in one of the theatres at Monash Uni (no doubt you have heard of Monash). I shot the material (which was has now been passed on to the client) using the EX3 and nano in IMX 50. The pictures looked very nice, very clean with vivid colours. Looked very nice and each clip was well received by the audience. Sorry I do not have a copy of it but for me, a 4x3 SD program in 2009/2010 was not one to keep in my showreel. This year it will be in 16x9. Sorry I cannot be of more help. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

February 27th, 2010, 10:56 PM	#2
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Hi Simon, Haven't really played with the SD flavors, but it's my understanding that you are getting a better compression system (IMX) in addition to recording 4:2:2 as opposed to the DVcam system used by the 350's (which would be 4:1:1 or 4:2:0, depending on NTSC or PAL?).

March 5th, 2010, 01:15 AM	#5
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	I thought the Nano would be great for SD with the IMX50 codec. Is there anyway Alister or anyone that has a Nano for someone to shoot with a half inch chip Camera in SD and post a SD grab @ 25mbps and also a grab using the Nano at IMX50. If not, oh well. Cheers

March 5th, 2010, 07:45 AM	#7
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Hello Simon, As I recall, you could use the 1/2" disc-based PDW-355 (or 350) or the EX1r, or possibly the 2/3" PDW-350 (with DVcam recording option). You could record internally from any of them at Dvcam speed while sending SD-SDI to the SDI output and then recording that on the Nano. The older EX1 / EX3, though allowing you to output SD-SDI to the SDI output connector, will record only HD internally to the cards. Best, Dave S.