Overscan progress at DVinfo.net

Nic van Oudtshoorn · January 22nd, 2010, 02:04 AM

I am eagerly awaiting the promised overscan feature for the XDR. Any idea when we can expect that to be implemented and any idea of what overscan specs will be available?

Aaron Newsome · January 22nd, 2010, 11:35 AM

I think what you mean is the overcrank feature. I've heard that the feature is very close as we speak. As far as I know, there is no plan (or need) for an overscan feature.

Mike Schell · January 22nd, 2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

I think what you mean is the overcrank feature. I've heard that the feature is very close as we speak. As far as I know, there is no plan (or need) for an overscan feature.

Hi Aaron, Nic-
We have over/under crank working in the lab. We are waiting to complete 8-channel audio and then we will start the public beta, hopefully in the next week.

Best-

Nic van Oudtshoorn · January 22nd, 2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

I think what you mean is the overcrank feature. I've heard that the feature is very close as we speak. As far as I know, there is no plan (or need) for an overscan feature.

My apologies - I did mean overcrank, not overscan (and I do know the difference :) )

Any idea what overcrank specs will be?

Dan Keaton · January 23rd, 2010, 07:52 AM

Dear Nic,

For Over and Under Cranking:

Start with your camera set to 1080p30 (actually 29.97) or 720p60 (actually 59.94).

Then you set, in the nanoFlash, what frame rate you want the footage identified as for the editor.

Usually this will be 24 frames per second. This will be the standard play rate in the Non-Linear Editor.

Then, set, in the nanoFlash, the number of frames per second to be actually recorded.
This is a number from 1 to 30 for 1080 footage and 1 to 60 for 720 footage.

Anything under 24, if you set 24 frames per second as the timeline value, will be undercranked.

A value of 1, will be such that 1 frame a second will be recorded.
A value of 2, indicates 2 frames a second.

Anything above 24 will be overcranked.

720 footage allows one to overcrank to 60 frames per second. Thus when this is played back at 24 frames per second, the effect will be slow motion.

1080 footage allows one to overcrank to 30 frames per second. This is much more subtle slow motion.

With over and undercranking, you have some additional tools available for your camera.
Please understand that neither of these are "Super Slow Motion", but both can be useful at times.

We have this feature working in our lab. It will be in our Public Beta, which may be released next week.

We have delayed the Public Beta so we can include 8-Channel Audio in the same release. We met a major milestone yesterday in the development of 8-Channel Audio.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 23rd, 2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Start with your camera set to 1080p30 (actually 29.97) or 720p60 (actually 59.94).

You mean 720p30 (or 25 for us PAL guys), right, Dan?

Also, will the nearest beta contain the promised record indicator on a loop-out monitor?

Thanks

Piotr

Dan Keaton · January 23rd, 2010, 08:42 AM

Dear Piotr,

I did mean 720p60 (usually 720p59.94) or 720p50.

If one sets the camera to 720p30 or 720p25, then one limits the over-cranking ability.

I have not know if we will have the Record Indicator (on the monitor outputs) ready or not.

Our Chief Engineer has been very busy with 8-Channel Audio.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 23rd, 2010, 08:45 AM

Dear Dan,

When I need slow-mo from 720p in my EX1 (without the nano), I set it to 720/25p and overcrank to 50 fps (for exactly 0.5x), or even 60 fps.

This is why you got me interested - how does it differ when using nanoFlash? I'm obviously missing something here..

Dan Keaton · January 23rd, 2010, 09:27 AM

Dear Piotr,

Yes, I understand the confusion.

If you want to record over or under-cranked in the camera, and not the nanoFlash, then set up the camera for over or under-cranking, provided the camera supports this function.

If you want to record over or under-cranked in the nanoFlash, then do not set over or under-cranking in the camera, just set it in the nanoFlash. Set the camera to either 720p50/720p60 or 1080p30.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 23rd, 2010, 10:00 AM

Dan,

After a second thought, I guess you're right (well, you certainly know what you're talking about :)).

Dan Keaton · January 23rd, 2010, 10:10 AM

Dear Piotr,

Thanks for the compliment.

I do try to be clear, but sometimes I fail.

What is nice, is that one can record Over and Under-Cranking in the camera, and record normal in the nanoFlash. And vice-versa.

While recording over and under-cranking in most cameras, normal 720p60 or 720p5, or 1080p30 is what comes out the HD-SDI port.

So, if one wants to record over and under-cranking in the nanoFlash, leave the camera setup normal, then one has a backup, in the camera in case the over and under-cranking is not exactly what you want.

The most important thing is that we are releasing this feature as a Public Beta, so our friends can test it, and report back to us what the like and do not like.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 23rd, 2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

While recording over and under-cranking in most cameras, normal 720p60 or 720p5, or 1080p30 is what comes out the HD-SDI port.

I think this is the key to clear any confusion, Dan - thanks!

Nic van Oudtshoorn · January 23rd, 2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

With over and undercranking, you have some additional tools available for your camera.
Please understand that neither of these are "Super Slow Motion", but both can be useful at times.

We have this feature working in our lab. It will be in our Public Beta, which may be released next week.

...

Thanks for that detailed reply, Dan. Will the beta provide "Super Slow Motion", ie 100 or 120 fps as I can get on my RED One shooting 2k? Also, I am using the XDR, not Nano, - will the beta be for both?

Dan Keaton · January 23rd, 2010, 04:30 PM

Dear Nic,

We will provide a Public Beta for both the nanoFlash and Flash XDR. There may be a day or two delay, for one or the other, but our goal is to always release firmware for both simultaneously.

No, super Slow-mo, with footage over 60 frames per second is not possible with the nanoFlash. The HD-SDI connection is limited to 60 frames per second in 720p and 30 frames per second in 1080p30.

And, this values are also determined by the cameras capabilities.

In other words, most cameras can not exceed thes frames rates.

Internally, cameras can achieve higher frame rates, since they are not limited by the specifications and capabilities of HD-SDI.

Andrew Stone · January 31st, 2010, 12:21 PM

Presently (before the beta firmware is released that allows over/undercranking on the nanoFlash) if one were to set the camera to overcrank (and record to internal media) 60 frames on 720p30 are we going to damage the nanoFlash unit?

January 22nd, 2010, 02:04 AM	#1
Nic van Oudtshoorn Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jamberoo, NSW, Australia Posts: 29	Overscan progress I am eagerly awaiting the promised overscan feature for the XDR. Any idea when we can expect that to be implemented and any idea of what overscan specs will be available?

January 23rd, 2010, 07:52 AM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Nic, For Over and Under Cranking: Start with your camera set to 1080p30 (actually 29.97) or 720p60 (actually 59.94). Then you set, in the nanoFlash, what frame rate you want the footage identified as for the editor. Usually this will be 24 frames per second. This will be the standard play rate in the Non-Linear Editor. Then, set, in the nanoFlash, the number of frames per second to be actually recorded. This is a number from 1 to 30 for 1080 footage and 1 to 60 for 720 footage. Anything under 24, if you set 24 frames per second as the timeline value, will be undercranked. A value of 1, will be such that 1 frame a second will be recorded. A value of 2, indicates 2 frames a second. Anything above 24 will be overcranked. 720 footage allows one to overcrank to 60 frames per second. Thus when this is played back at 24 frames per second, the effect will be slow motion. 1080 footage allows one to overcrank to 30 frames per second. This is much more subtle slow motion. With over and undercranking, you have some additional tools available for your camera. Please understand that neither of these are "Super Slow Motion", but both can be useful at times. We have this feature working in our lab. It will be in our Public Beta, which may be released next week. We have delayed the Public Beta so we can include 8-Channel Audio in the same release. We met a major milestone yesterday in the development of 8-Channel Audio. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 23rd, 2010, 08:42 AM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Piotr, I did mean 720p60 (usually 720p59.94) or 720p50. If one sets the camera to 720p30 or 720p25, then one limits the over-cranking ability. I have not know if we will have the Record Indicator (on the monitor outputs) ready or not. Our Chief Engineer has been very busy with 8-Channel Audio. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 23rd, 2010, 08:45 AM	#8
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Dear Dan, When I need slow-mo from 720p in my EX1 (without the nano), I set it to 720/25p and overcrank to 50 fps (for exactly 0.5x), or even 60 fps. This is why you got me interested - how does it differ when using nanoFlash? I'm obviously missing something here.. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

January 23rd, 2010, 09:27 AM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Piotr, Yes, I understand the confusion. If you want to record over or under-cranked in the camera, and not the nanoFlash, then set up the camera for over or under-cranking, provided the camera supports this function. If you want to record over or under-cranked in the nanoFlash, then do not set over or under-cranking in the camera, just set it in the nanoFlash. Set the camera to either 720p50/720p60 or 1080p30. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 22nd, 2010, 11:35 AM	#2
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	I think what you mean is the overcrank feature. I've heard that the feature is very close as we speak. As far as I know, there is no plan (or need) for an overscan feature.

January 23rd, 2010, 10:00 AM	#10
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Dan, After a second thought, I guess you're right (well, you certainly know what you're talking about :)). __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

January 23rd, 2010, 10:10 AM	#11
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Piotr, Thanks for the compliment. I do try to be clear, but sometimes I fail. What is nice, is that one can record Over and Under-Cranking in the camera, and record normal in the nanoFlash. And vice-versa. While recording over and under-cranking in most cameras, normal 720p60 or 720p5, or 1080p30 is what comes out the HD-SDI port. So, if one wants to record over and under-cranking in the nanoFlash, leave the camera setup normal, then one has a backup, in the camera in case the over and under-cranking is not exactly what you want. The most important thing is that we are releasing this feature as a Public Beta, so our friends can test it, and report back to us what the like and do not like. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 23rd, 2010, 04:30 PM	#14
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Nic, We will provide a Public Beta for both the nanoFlash and Flash XDR. There may be a day or two delay, for one or the other, but our goal is to always release firmware for both simultaneously. No, super Slow-mo, with footage over 60 frames per second is not possible with the nanoFlash. The HD-SDI connection is limited to 60 frames per second in 720p and 30 frames per second in 1080p30. And, this values are also determined by the cameras capabilities. In other words, most cameras can not exceed thes frames rates. Internally, cameras can achieve higher frame rates, since they are not limited by the specifications and capabilities of HD-SDI. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 31st, 2010, 12:21 PM	#15
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Presently (before the beta firmware is released that allows over/undercranking on the nanoFlash) if one were to set the camera to overcrank (and record to internal media) 60 frames on 720p30 are we going to damage the nanoFlash unit?