Audio Meters on Loop-out Monitors at DVinfo.net

Piotr Wozniacki · December 19th, 2009, 04:52 AM

I asked this in another thread, but then decided the idea deserves a thread of its own:

CD is listening to us, and is going to implement Record Indicators on Loop-out Monitors; how about adding audio meters as well, at the same opportunity?

Edit: after yet another thought, I actually think that while implementing the record indicator that Mike has announced, it shouldn't be too difficult to output a whole set of indicators, such as:

- the above mentioned audio meters
- any non-standard function being active (like cache recording, over/under-cranking, etc)
- time left on cards..

I guess that's enough - let's not make the output over-cluttered :)

Mike and Dan, am I asking too much?

Very happy Holidays and a prosperous New Year to all of you guys!

Dan Keaton · December 19th, 2009, 08:35 AM

Dear Piotr,

I am sorry to report that we are not able to do all that you ask.

What we are attempting to do is to put on a simple record indicator, such as a line or bar (a few lines) of red.

This is dramatically different than putting characters overlayed on the HD-SDI or HDMI output.

Piotr Wozniacki · December 19th, 2009, 08:45 AM

Never mind, Dan - I perfectly understand the difference in complexity of those 2 approaches...

A simple record indicator, plus a set of headphones for monitoring the audio (which I'm using anyway whenever the audio is crucial), will make me happy anyway!

Best,

Piotr

Steve Brown · December 19th, 2009, 12:34 PM

Piotr and Dan,

I have audio meter displays on my 7" TV Logic monitor. It displays four channels on the left and four channels on the right in bar graph form. I assume this is a combination of the output device's ability to include that info within the SDI stream and the monitor's capability to display info from the SDI stream.

The devices I am usually feeding that monitor are my HDX900 cameras and my HD-1400 VTR. I haven't checked the nano's output on that monitor to see if provides that within the SDI stream. Should it be there? If not, could it be included for decoding on a monitor such as the TV Logic?

Piotr Wozniacki · December 19th, 2009, 01:43 PM

Steve,

Every camera creates sort of graphics overlay with menus, meters etc. to be displayed in its own viewfinder; it also can be turned on with external monitoring (through Composite, Component, SDI, HDMI...). The thing with recorders like our nano is that we need to strip the camera's SDI/HDMI output off this overlay, so that it doesn't get recorded permanently over the actual video.

Your monitor only can display functional audio meters if it's fed with a signal with appropriate information; as Dan explained it would be difficult to modify the nanoFlash in such a way that it outputs its own menu/meters overlay from the loop-out port...

Dan Keaton · December 19th, 2009, 01:49 PM

Dear Piotr and Steve,

Some monitors have a built in capability to display audio level meters.

As long as the audio is embedded in the HD-SDI (or possibly HDMI) output stream, and you are using a monitor with the audio level meter capabilities, and they are turned on, then you should see the level meters on the monitor.

Thus, we do not have to do anything more than we are already doing.

Stating it differently, we output the audio channels embedded in the HD-SDI and HDMI output stream.

Steve Brown · December 19th, 2009, 01:50 PM

Piotr,

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm not referring to information that would be overlaid via menus that can be turned on and off at the camera or recorder. I'm referring to actual data (not graphics that represent data) in the SDI stream. The data in the SDI stream has to be read (as I understand it) by some sort of decoder or de-embedder... it isn't part of the picture.

Olof Ekbergh · December 19th, 2009, 01:52 PM

I have JVC DV series LCD monitors and they always display audio vu's and TC at the top or bottom of the monitor (not over the video picture), your choice as well as the entire video picture in overscan mode.

The new ones even have a WF added as an overlay.

These monitors will show all embedded audio channels vu meters in a SDI signal.

Piotr Wozniacki · December 19th, 2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Brown

Piotr,

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm not referring to information that would be overlaid via menus that can be turned on and off at the camera or recorder. I'm referring to actual data (not graphics that represent data) in the SDI stream. The data in the SDI stream has to be read (as I understand it) by some sort of decoder or de-embedder... it isn't part of the picture.

Yes Steve, I did miss your point. I simply forgot about the audio being embedded in the SDI (or HDMI) stream; I stand corrected.

With a monitor like this, displaying audio meters for embedded audio will be possible then; this leaves us with the question of monitoring the nanoFlash 2 analog inputs (and in the future, the up-to-8-channel mix).

Dan Keaton · December 19th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Der Piotr,

The nanoFlash's two analog audio inputs are automatically embedded in the HD-SDI and HDMI outputs, unless you enable E to E mode.

E to E mode is an almost zero latency system, input to output, thus there is not time to embedded the analog audio or timecode into the stream. This can not be accomplished in one microsecond.

Piotr Wozniacki · December 19th, 2009, 02:52 PM

Thanks Dan - didn't realize that.

Still a lot to learn about my new nanoFlash!

Aaron Newsome · December 19th, 2009, 04:42 PM

My camera has a seperate viewfinder output so I can see overlays with all kinds of camera info like white balance, frame guides, center mark, iris, shutter, zoom ratio, etc. So I'm ok when it comes to camera info in my monitor. I don't need it output from the XDR.

I don't see a record indicator because my camera doesn't have a recorder, so the XDR setting a record indicator on the SDI output would be helpful.

My camera also doesn't do audio so it would be nice to have some audio indicators in my monitor but I don't see that happening. Would be nice though.

December 19th, 2009, 04:52 AM	#1
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Audio Meters on Loop-out Monitors I asked this in another thread, but then decided the idea deserves a thread of its own: CD is listening to us, and is going to implement Record Indicators on Loop-out Monitors; how about adding audio meters as well, at the same opportunity? Edit: after yet another thought, I actually think that while implementing the record indicator that Mike has announced, it shouldn't be too difficult to output a whole set of indicators, such as: - the above mentioned audio meters - any non-standard function being active (like cache recording, over/under-cranking, etc) - time left on cards.. I guess that's enough - let's not make the output over-cluttered :) Mike and Dan, am I asking too much? Very happy Holidays and a prosperous New Year to all of you guys! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; December 19th, 2009 at 05:43 AM.

December 19th, 2009, 08:35 AM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Piotr, I am sorry to report that we are not able to do all that you ask. What we are attempting to do is to put on a simple record indicator, such as a line or bar (a few lines) of red. This is dramatically different than putting characters overlayed on the HD-SDI or HDMI output. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 19th, 2009, 08:45 AM	#3
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Never mind, Dan - I perfectly understand the difference in complexity of those 2 approaches... A simple record indicator, plus a set of headphones for monitoring the audio (which I'm using anyway whenever the audio is crucial), will make me happy anyway! Best, Piotr __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

December 19th, 2009, 01:43 PM	#5
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Steve, Every camera creates sort of graphics overlay with menus, meters etc. to be displayed in its own viewfinder; it also can be turned on with external monitoring (through Composite, Component, SDI, HDMI...). The thing with recorders like our nano is that we need to strip the camera's SDI/HDMI output off this overlay, so that it doesn't get recorded permanently over the actual video. Your monitor only can display functional audio meters if it's fed with a signal with appropriate information; as Dan explained it would be difficult to modify the nanoFlash in such a way that it outputs its own menu/meters overlay from the loop-out port... __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

December 19th, 2009, 01:49 PM	#6
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Piotr and Steve, Some monitors have a built in capability to display audio level meters. As long as the audio is embedded in the HD-SDI (or possibly HDMI) output stream, and you are using a monitor with the audio level meter capabilities, and they are turned on, then you should see the level meters on the monitor. Thus, we do not have to do anything more than we are already doing. Stating it differently, we output the audio channels embedded in the HD-SDI and HDMI output stream. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 19th, 2009, 12:34 PM	#4
Steve Brown Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 96	Piotr and Dan, I have audio meter displays on my 7" TV Logic monitor. It displays four channels on the left and four channels on the right in bar graph form. I assume this is a combination of the output device's ability to include that info within the SDI stream and the monitor's capability to display info from the SDI stream. The devices I am usually feeding that monitor are my HDX900 cameras and my HD-1400 VTR. I haven't checked the nano's output on that monitor to see if provides that within the SDI stream. Should it be there? If not, could it be included for decoding on a monitor such as the TV Logic?

December 19th, 2009, 01:50 PM	#7
Steve Brown Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 96	Piotr, I think you misunderstood my post. I'm not referring to information that would be overlaid via menus that can be turned on and off at the camera or recorder. I'm referring to actual data (not graphics that represent data) in the SDI stream. The data in the SDI stream has to be read (as I understand it) by some sort of decoder or de-embedder... it isn't part of the picture.

December 19th, 2009, 01:52 PM	#8
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	I have JVC DV series LCD monitors and they always display audio vu's and TC at the top or bottom of the monitor (not over the video picture), your choice as well as the entire video picture in overscan mode. The new ones even have a WF added as an overlay. These monitors will show all embedded audio channels vu meters in a SDI signal.

December 19th, 2009, 02:37 PM	#10
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Der Piotr, The nanoFlash's two analog audio inputs are automatically embedded in the HD-SDI and HDMI outputs, unless you enable E to E mode. E to E mode is an almost zero latency system, input to output, thus there is not time to embedded the analog audio or timecode into the stream. This can not be accomplished in one microsecond. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 19th, 2009, 02:52 PM	#11
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Thanks Dan - didn't realize that. Still a lot to learn about my new nanoFlash! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

December 19th, 2009, 04:42 PM	#12
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	My camera has a seperate viewfinder output so I can see overlays with all kinds of camera info like white balance, frame guides, center mark, iris, shutter, zoom ratio, etc. So I'm ok when it comes to camera info in my monitor. I don't need it output from the XDR. I don't see a record indicator because my camera doesn't have a recorder, so the XDR setting a record indicator on the SDI output would be helpful. My camera also doesn't do audio so it would be nice to have some audio indicators in my monitor but I don't see that happening. Would be nice though.