Nano clips in Vegas 9.0c

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Thanks Dan - both for the answer here, and the email:)

BTW - you have sent me 2 emails; isn't one of them intended to Aaron (or was it just a mistake with names - as you are kindly mentioning my surgeries)...

Or am I not the only one after surgeries among the nanoFlash users? ;)

Piotr

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

My mistake, sorry.

Yes, I was referring to your surgeries.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Dear Dan, Mike and Tommy

I'm aware you are busy with implementing new great features (just downloaded the Beta firmware), but could I kindly remain you of the problems with nano mxf clips in Vegas 9.0?

Not only do I still get green frames in the timeline, but there is also another flaw: smart rendering nano mxf clips starts properly with the message "no recompression required", but after some 10% into the timeline, it gives up saying the render is finished. Unfortunately, all I'm getting on output is audio :(

Smart-rendering 100 Mbps nano clips in Vegas 8.0 produces an exact 1:1 copy of my nano clips, and of 100 Mbps too!

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

We will call Sony and discuss these issues with them.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Thanks Dan.

When discussing the problem with SCS, please ask Tommy to keep in mind that the smart-rendering problem depends on the timeline selection size. For instance, a clip of 400 MB in size smart-renders OK, the problem starts with clips of 800 MB and above... This again points to memory handling problems with mxf format!

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

Thank you for the additional information.

We will provide this information to our contacts at Sony.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Sorry for cross-posting, but this really as about nanFlash acquisition format, and its NLE processing capabilities. Here is what I posted in the Vegas area of DVinfo (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-hap...sta-x64.html):

Guys, I'm experiencing problems with mxf file handling in Vegas 9.0c (both 32 and 64 bit versions) under Vista x64. SCS Tech Supp cannot help, but before I do a clean OS /apps reinstallation, could you please help me by answering the following questions?

Please note: it only applies to anyone running Vegas 9.0 under Vista x64, and having access to the XDCAM EX 35 Mbps and/or NanoFlash 100 Mbps MXF clips ! This problem is not showing for me in Vegas Pro 8.0c (under XP, Vista or 7), nor in Vegas Pro 9.0c under Windows XP, Vista x86, or Windows 7...Also, even with VP 9.0/Vista x64 combination, I don't have such issues with any other format!

1. Did you have VP 9.0 -64bit installer procedure failing at the very last step, with the "your system has not been changed" message?

2. When playing back a long mxf timeline for the first time, does your RAM usage (as reported in the Task Manager) increase at the rate of some 0.1 GB/sec (e.g. 3.0, 3.1, ..., 7.99, Slowdown, freeze, CRASH)?

3. When smart-rendering 35 Mbps mxf, does your RAM usage increase as per point 2 above?

4. When smart-rendering a 100 Mpbs 4:2:2 mxf file larger than some 0.5GB, do you get proper results (i.e. a 100 Mbps mxf file), or do you just get a clip with audio only?

Well, I guess answers to the above questions would help me tremendously...

Thanks,

Piotr

[Ron Aerts]

I encountered the same problems with the green frames in the start of every mxf-file regardless of the bitrate. I already discussed this with Tommy Schell per PM and he was very considerate with my problem, which shows to be also a problem for other people.
It is the combination with Sony Vegas 9.0c. I do not have the green frames in 9.0b.
Tommy noticed me that they are in touch with Sony about this matter, which is good to hear as I have the feeling that Sony sooner listens to them as to a few Nanoflash users

There is also a slight difference in lenght with the longer files when I compare them with the sames files recorded at the SxS cards in the camera.
When recording MPG files the video is even more delayed to the audio track than MXF files and quite a lot delay according to the SxS files.
I find the mpg video delay just out of the acceptable range, however simply to solve in the NLE to one's taste.
As mpg recording is a recent addition to the NF the mpg functionality could improve. I'm curious when this is going to be done.

It is also difficult for me to see a better quality picture when I compare longGOP MXF50 and even MXF100 with the Sony MPG4 SxS frames, Maybe with QT files this is different because I only use Vegas and have no QT functionality.

During a recent recording from a dance show out of a pro-SDI switcher I encountered artifacts in the files from the NanoFlash, which did not show up in the backup recording device files. Could be a problem with bad cabling (always use certified HDSDI cables!!) however I feel that it has to do more with the NF.

I work with version 1.1.154, I have not tried version Beta 1.5.31 yet (I have a 'Beta Trauma')

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Piotr,

Thank you for the additional information.

We will provide this information to our contacts at Sony.

Dear Dan

Any news on the leading green frame in long-Gop clips, or occassional black frame in I-frame ones, when put on Vegas 9.0c timeline?

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Just installed Vegas 9.0d.

Unfortunately, the green frame problem (long-GoP) and black frame problem (I-frame) are still there.

[Ron Aerts]

when you load them in 9.0b and smartrender them (if possible) what happens then to the green frames in 9.0c/d?

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Ron, let's stick to the 9.0d for a while.

The answer is two-fold:

1. Smart-rendering is now possible (which is good - see my post about on what happened before)

2. Unlike in 8.0c, smart-rendering using the 50 Mbps 4:2:2 template now produces exactly that - a 50 Mbps file.This is disappointing; I was hoping SCS would fix smart-rendering so that it works exactly like in the 8.0c (i.e. you can preserve the 100 Mbps bit rate). Of course, this has never been explicitly or formally supported (after all, the template is CBR 50) - but still a pity. The best workflow scenario would be to preserve the higher bitrates as long as only possible (certainly through smart-rendering)

3. Of course, the smart-rendered file doesn't show the leading green frame any more, but this is nothing new (also before, in 9.0c, after any kind of rendering, I could get rid of the green frame). This however is not a solution to the problem: as I said, the idea of acquiring in high bitrates is to keep that bitrate as long as possible into the edits, and believe me - editing a multi camera, multi take, multi event project with all single take / event starting with a green frame can be a nightmare!

[Ron Aerts]

I had earlier mxf files from other recording devices and they don't have the green frames. Why is it that the nano-files do this?

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Dan & Tommy,

Any news from SCS about the green frames in long-GOP / black frames in I-frame clips from the nano?

It's been a while now :(

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Dear Dan & Tommy,

Just wanted to update you on something you probably know by now - but here it goes, anyway:

- while the HD mxf clips have the above mentioned problems with green (Long-GoP) or black (I-frame) frames, the SD IMX clips behave perfectly on Vegas Pro 9.0d timeline. No green/black frames, and very easy to edit.

Please update us whether we can count on a similar behavior of nanoFlash HD mfx; have SCS actually comment on the problem (persistent with all minor versions of VP 9.0)? Any hope for fixing this in the future Vegas releases?

It's so frustrating to work with nanoFlash clips, while the basic (i.e. lower-quality) SxS clips display OK in this otherwise great NLE...

TIA,

Piotr