Nano clips in Vegas 9.0c

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Dear Dan,

Thanks. I realize this seems to be a Vegas 9.0 problem, but since I guess you're cooperating with SCS, I'd be grateful if you brought this to their attention.

I'm doing mainly multi camera, live music performances; having each clip/take beginning with the green blocky frame can really make editing difficult...

Piotr

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

I have alerted our experts.

We will test this, then report the results of our testing to Sony Creative Software.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Friends,

One could download the free VLC Player, which does play our files.

This would allow one to confirm if the problem is ours or is a problem with Sony Vegas 9.0c.

Of course, we already have one indication that it may be in Sony Vegas 9.0c since we have a report that the files work fine in Sony Vegas 8.0c.

But, we are also testing this in our lab. It may be in our firmware, as we can not get our very latest firmware that we are now testing, in our lab, to fail. In other words, with our latest firmware 1.1.173 (not yet released), and Sony Vegas 9.0c, we are not seeing any green frames.

Thus, we have two conflicting pieces of information.

We are about to go back to 1.1.154, in our lab, create some files, then test them for green frames in Sony Vegas 9.0c.

[Paul Inglis]

Hi Guys,

I have just finished a big post job and have had a little time to do some more tests with the nanoFLASH and Vegas. I have updated the nanoFLASH to the latest firmware.

It seems that things have changed;

Vegas Pro 9.0 (in both 32-bit and 64-bit) have green frames
Vegas Pro 8.0c and 8.1 (32-bit and 64-bit respectively) have black frames (are you seeing green frames here Piotr?)

Both render out with either green or black frames (it didn’t before) so I have to delete the first clip or so. This is going to be a real PITA. I’ve only started using Vegas 9.0c on the 13th to test the problem that Piotr was experiencing as I was wrapping up a big project in 8.1 (non-nano). I have started a new production (with nano) and will go on for a year. I need to know that I can edit this footage in Vegas (don’t care which one as along as it’s one).

I do think the Vegas 9.0c is more buggy than Vegas 8.0c or 8.1. I think it is more to do with Vegas than the nano.

[Paul Inglis]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

One could download the free VLC Player, which does play our files.

I'll download it now to test it. In XDCAM Viewer I am getting a black frame though.

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Of course, we already have one indication that it may be in Sony Vegas 9.0c since we have a report that the files work fine in Sony Vegas 8.0c.

8.0c and 8.1 are now showing black frames for me.

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

But, we are also testing this in our lab. It may be in our firmware, as we can not get our very latest firmware that we are now testing, in our lab, to fail. In other words, with our latest firmware 1.1.173 (not yet released), and Sony Vegas 9.0c, we are not seeing any green frames.

I could try your unrealeased firmware to test it in my versions of Vegas. Hopefully it is just that and crisis adverted.

[Paul Inglis]

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

One could download the free VLC Player, which does play our files.

This would allow one to confirm if the problem is ours or is a problem with Sony Vegas 9.0c.

Okay downloaded and played the same clip that produced either black or green frames and it's fine.

[Paul Inglis]

UPDATE:

I have re-installed all my Vegas Pro Software’s, in case anything has changed obviously something has, as I no longer suffering the Black Frame problem in Vegas Pro 8.0c or 8.1. So I will be editing in this NLE for now, as it works as it should!

The ‘Green Frame’ problem in Vegas Pro 9.0c (32-bit and 64-bit) still remains. I don’t believe it is a nanoFLASH firmware problem as I have tested in; 1.0.112, 1.1.150, 1.1.154 and the private beta 1.1.173. I shot in Long GoP, 100Mbps, MXF, 1080/25p. The results are the same the first frame is green!

I-Frames work fine! Vegas Pro 8 doesn't support I-Frames but in 9 works fine. So I guess its 9 for I-Frames and 8 for Long GoP, what a PITA!

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your thorough testing.

(Note: I sent Paul a Private Beta of our firmware. This firmware is still undergoing testing and is not ready for general release. In any case, it is not for production use.)

We are also testing in our lab.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

I can confirm Paul's findings. I only have green frames in VP 9.0c (both 32 and 64bit versions); I never had black or red frames.

Using the latest official firmware, and Long-GOP mxfs at 100-140 Mbps.

[Tommy Schell]

Hi,

we will be in touch with Vegas about this.
ps I've noticed that if you move around in the timeline enough that eventually the initial green frame will go to normal video.

Tommy Schell

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Any news from SCS?

Unfortunately, the green frame (in V 9.0/64bit) is not the only problem; there is also a shift in video (almost 1 sec - 24 frames), and in audio (13 frames), between the original EX and nano MXFs - even in version 8.0 of Vegas (with the nano version lagging behind by the aforementioned values)!

PS Just checked in Edius, and the nano clip also starts later by almost a full second when recording simultaneously with the SxS - is this normal?

Format: 100 Mbps, 1080/25p
latest nanoFlash firmware, triggered with TC increment

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Dear Dan,

I realize it's a weekend, but since I can see you're active on this forum - could you please address my above points?

Thanks a lot,

Piotr

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

Concerning the nanoFlash recording starting 1 second behind the Sony camera:

I am assuming you mean when we trigger on incrementing timecode.

Yes, it would certainly be possible that we take longer than the Sony EX1/EX3 cameras to start recording.

All cameras and recording devices have a lag between the time you press the record button and when they actual start recording. Sony's lag could be shorter.

As you are most likely aware, for many types of shooting the camera is "rolled" prior to the action.

For unexpected action, for many of our bit-rates, one could use our Pre-Record Buffer.


Tommy is our liason with Sony. I will check with him on Monday.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Dear Dan,

Thanks for your answer. So the "general" lag between the nano and camera when triggering by TC increment is normal - so I thought, appreciate re-assuring.

Having said that, what still worries me is that the amount of lag in video is not the same as in audio. Suppose I record the same to both the SxS and the nano; then I put the SxS clip in one track (Vegas or Edius - have the same problem), and the nano clip - in the lower track. After I slide one of them very carefully to match the video precisely, their audio tracks are still a couple of frames apart!

Is this also normal? What I'm worried about is that - when recording the SDI-embedded audio along with the analog straight to the nano - this may produce an echo, or what others have describe as "metallic" sound in another thread...

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

No, the audio out-of-sync condition is not normal.

I assume that you are working on 1.1.54.

We expect to release a Public Beta. In this firmware, we have added significant new features, and have attempted to correct this "Out of Sync" issue.