DV Magazine Review of the nanoFlash

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Friends,

DV Magazine, in their December 2009 issue has reviewed the nanoFlash.

The review was by Ned Soltz, and it is on Page 8.

Here is a link to the electronic copy of this issue of DV.

Digital Video - December 2009

We appreciate Mr. Soltz's kind words about the nanoFlash and our company.

[Mark Job]

Hi Dan & Mike:
Upon reading Mr. Stoltz review of the Nano Flash unit in this months DV Magazine, I feel completely vindicated as to my points in discussions on this forum regarding the issues of 8 vs 10 bit recording and Long GOP 100 vs I-Frame (Intra) recording.
In another article I read on the Internet last week, Sony made an announcement which I think presents a great future for the XDR as a portable studio VTR now that Sony has released HDCAM SR Lite 220Mbps I-Frame.

[Rafael Amador]

With all my respect to Mr Soltz, to quote "Only 8b" as "Con" I think is a shame and I do not agree with his comments about the 8-10b difference. He mix-up what is 10b acquisition with what is 10b processing.
Shoot in 8b and process in 10b Uncompress. You can drop effects, graphics or whatever.
Will be differences? Sure if you look for differences you will end up find them, but probably nobody else will see them.
Cheers,
rafael

[Mark Job]

Hi Rafael:

You wrote: "With all my respect to Mr Soltz, to quote "Only 8b" as "Con" I think is a shame and I do not agree with his comments about the 8-10b difference. He mix-up what is 10b acquisition with what is 10b processing. Shoot in 8b and process in 10b Uncompress."

.....I understood his comments as pertaining mostly to post. BTW, Mr. Soltz's opinions are held by the grand majority of folks in broadcast today. Just try and sell an experienced Tv producer on 8 bit shooting when he can easily pull out a broadcast camera and get 10 bit. Many are not so easily sold in my market. I think Discovery Channel has truly lead the way in acceptance of 8 bit image acquisition in broadcast with its shows like Deadly Catch and Storm Chasers which are basically HDV fests wired back to 10 bit recording Digital HD VTRS sitting the back of the car. (Storm Chasers)

....Cash Cab is all 8 bit XDR's. I think the functionality card must be played with some producers to get them to go for a Nano or an XDR simply because there is no other way to shoot inside such limited close spaces as a taxi cab or a storm chase vehicle, but with small prosumer cameras (Which are all 8 bit) and a recorder which has the same color space, raster, and interface as their pro VTRS (HD-SDI). So it's mainly production logistics to be the reason behind some shows shooting 8 bit due to locations with very hostile environments where you need very portable acquisition, and you can go 10 bit in post anyway.

[Mike Schell]

Just an FYI, we are planning to add a 10-Bit to 8-Bit dither to the nano/XDR firmware early next year. We think this should largely eliminate any potential banding issues associated with 8-bit processing. Naturally this requires an HD-SDI source with true 10-bit resolution.

Best-

[Mark Job]

Hi Mike:
This sounds like an interesting implementation. This should be good for in Tv Station XDR VTR style dubs of HDCAM SR Lite 220-I Frame material.

[Rafael Amador]

Originally Posted by Mark Job

Hi Rafael:
Just try and sell an experienced Tv producer on 8 bit shooting when he can easily pull out a broadcast camera and get 10 bit..

Mark, experienced Tv producer when you have a DVCPro50 camera, makes you record at 25Mbps to spend less money on tapes.

Mark wrote:
"I think Discovery Channel has truly lead the way in acceptance of 8 bit image acquisition in broadcast with its shows like Deadly Catch and Storm Chasers.."

Mark very, very little people in this world is recording or have ever been recording in 10b Unc, because you have already see the gear needed to do it.
Discovery Channel may have recorded some special stuff in 10b but I believe a very little in the volume of his production.

Mark for me to say that "being only 8b is a con" while we are talking about an MPEG-2 recorder, is like to criticize a car because it have no wings to fly.

You say Mark: "Mr. Soltz's opinions are held by the grand majority of folks in broadcast today". And my self appreciate and respect the opinion of Mr Soltz, but I do not agree with some of them.

Mark, I started in this business in 1.983, and, except the Ampex Quad, I've been working with most of the recording formats and supports. I think I have elements to talk about the difference between 8 and 10b codecs, and, sorry I have to admit that I get SICK when people dismiss 8b recording, just because there is something better.

Filmmaker would have paid tens of thousands of dollars for the NANO just three years ago. What was good three year ago may be no "good enough' today, but what it is or it is not "good enough" is a very personal appreciation.

I've read few days ago in a little clip about the "climate Change":
What I Want - Less What I need = Waste.

I know what I want but I also know what I need and I believe that if would be recording 10b Unc I would be generating tons of "bits-waste".

Cheers,
rafael

PS: And sorry I've been calling Netz "Mr Soltz" just because I couldn't remember his given name while I was writing.

[Mark Job]

Hi Rafael:
Please read back on my earlier posts in this thread Sir. Where did I *ever* write *Uncompressed ?* I was talking about HDV 25 Mb per second and Flash XDR use. You even quoted what I wrote correctly where *I do not state uncompressed* No one in Tv production shoots uncompressed. Just about everyone in Digital Cinema does indeed shoot uncompressed. However, I did not join this thread to initiate an uncompressed vs compressed discussion. I want to be as clear as crystal on this point. I will state again for the record that 10 bit 4:2:2 recording is a standard in North American Tv production. It just is. You don't have to like it, but isn't this point even obvious ? Why is it even up for debate ?

[Rafael Amador]

Hi mark,
Sorry. Yes, you haven't say Uncompress.
You said: "I will state again for the record that 10 bit 4:2:2 recording is a standard in North American Tv production".
So in America everybody shot with PANASONIC AVC-Intra?
Apart of this i don't know any other manufacturer producing a 10b format.
rafael

[Mark Job]

Hey Rafael:
You wrote: 'So in America everybody shot with PANASONIC AVC-Intra?
Apart of this i don't know any other manufacturer producing a 10b format."

.....Huh ?

[Alister Chapman]

Originally Posted by Mark Job

I think Discovery Channel has truly lead the way in acceptance of 8 bit image acquisition in broadcast with its shows like Deadly Catch and Storm Chasers which are basically HDV fests wired back to 10 bit recording Digital HD VTRS sitting the back of the car. (Storm Chasers)

Utter rubbish. As someone that has assisted the crews on Storm Chasers on many occasions I can assure you that the primary cameras are plain vanilla Sony Z1's recording on HDV tapes. Do you really think that someone running around in the middle of severe storms could work while tethered to a vehicle mounted VTR? The same goes for deadliest catch, are we really expected to believe the cameraman out on the deck of a rolling crab boat has a cable running from his camera to a 10bit VTR.

[Steve Phillipps]

Originally Posted by Mark Job

Hey Rafael:
You wrote: 'So in America everybody shot with PANASONIC AVC-Intra?
Apart of this i don't know any other manufacturer producing a 10b format."

.....Huh ?

What Rafael is saying is that in HD broadcast cameras it's only the Panny AVC Intras that are 10 bit. All the Sonys (HDCam, XDCAM and EX) are 8 bit. Surely someone in the US must be using a Sony?!
Digibeta was 10 bit though.
Steve

[Alister Chapman]

To be honest, in my experience, the majority of TV producers have no real understanding of differences in codecs, sensors or formats. They normally use what they are familiar with or what they have been told to use by the accountants. In many cases this may be a choice influenced by special rental deals, cheapest to buy or on high profile productions, deals offered by manufacturers. Very rarely is the choice of camera down to using the best camera for the job.
The majority of people on this forum do at least take the time to do their homework and research the different shooting choices, so they can make an educated choice, but I fear that we are just a small segment of the wider broadcasting and video production world. There are still many TV executives that don't even understand the differences between 4:3 and 16:9, let alone SD and HD or 10 bit or 8 bit.

[Mark Job]

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Utter rubbish. As someone that has assisted the crews on Storm Chasers on many occasions I can assure you that the primary cameras are plain vanilla Sony Z1's recording on HDV tapes. Do you really think that someone running around in the middle of severe storms could work while tethered to a vehicle mounted VTR? The same goes for deadliest catch, are we really expected to believe the cameraman out on the deck of a rolling crab boat has a cable running from his camera to a 10bit VTR.

...Alister:
I did not write, and I *did not suggest* anywhere in *any* post that Storm Chasers or any Discovery crew filming fisherman in the Baltic Sea were or are actually running around tethered back to any *any 10 bit VTR !* What is utter rubbish, is your misreading of my earlier posts.
Please check out this link here Storm Chasers: Behind The Chase : Videos : Discovery Channel

If you take the time to actually watch the interviews with the behind the scenes camera operators, you will learn, Alister, that in addition to "plain vanilla HDV cameras," which I already wrote they were shooting in HDV thank you (So is Deadly Catch), they use a series of in car mounted POV cameras wired back to VTRs in the back of the chase vehicles. It is Not* "Utter Rubbish Sir !* It is fact ! Cash Cab also uses POV cams but they are wired back to Flash XDRs ;) Do you really think I or anyone else actually thinks what you are asserting is accurate ?

[Mark Job]

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

What Rafael is saying is that in HD broadcast cameras it's only the Panny AVC Intras that are 10 bit. All the Sonys (HDCam, XDCAM and EX) are 8 bit. Surely someone in the US must be using a Sony?!
Digibeta was 10 bit though.
Steve

... Hi Steve:
Yes of course, but I already wrote that it has largely been due to The Discovery Channel's lead that 8 bit HDV camcorder shooting has been interjected into everyday Tv production.