Stop button should not be instantaneous at DVinfo.net

Billy Steinberg · October 28th, 2009, 11:11 AM

Is there any good reason that the nano's stop button response is instantaneous?

It's just too easy to accidentally hit it, and stop the recording. The one second delay that the remote start/stop button or the main power button has would be MUCH appreciated in the stop button as well. Some of us can't depend on timecode start/stop to stop and start the recorder, and it seems pretty silly to have to rig an external start/stop cable just to deal with possible accidental momentary pushes of the stop button on the nano.

Also, a note that with the latest firmware, the backlight setting is not remembered from power down to power up. It always comes up without the timeout checked when you power up.

Billy

David Issko · October 28th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Billy,

For what it's worth, I have the remote cable and just used it the other day. The nano starts up pretty much instantly, which is what we all want, the nano needs about 5 seconds of record time and then you have to press and hold the cable button for at least 2 full seconds to stop the nano from recording. Perhaps the cable may help but no doubt the CD engineers can attend to your issue fairly easily I expect.

Dan Keaton · October 28th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Dear Billy,

We used to require that the Stop button be held down for x seconds prior to us stopping the recording.

Our users asked us to eliminate this delay.

Our users were tired of having to hold the button down to effect the stop.

Note: For safety sake, the remote control starts instantly, but all short presses of the remote control switch will be ignored, if we are already recording. One must hold it down for 2 seconds or so, then release it to stop.

Perrone Ford · October 28th, 2009, 02:31 PM

Don,

I am not a Nanoflash owner, but can certainly see both sides of this one. Since this is not a mechanical process, would it be possible to alter this behavior with a menu setting? Something like "Stop Behavior > Instant / 2 Sec / 5 Sec ??

Billy Steinberg · October 28th, 2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Billy,

We used to require that the Stop button be held down for x seconds prior to us stopping the recording.

Our users asked us to eliminate this delay.

Our users were tired of having to hold the button down to effect the stop.

Note: For safety sake, the remote control starts instantly, but all short presses of the remote control switch will be ignored, if we are already recording. One must hold it down for 2 seconds or so, then release it to stop.

Well, at the risk of offending "our users", this strikes me as a very very BAD change. Why on earth would someone mind a one second delay in stopping the recording. Did the same users complain of the one second delay in the power off function? And why does it make sense to put the delay function in the remote control's stop function, but not in the nano itself. It's just too easy to accidentally hit the nano's stop button, which is flush mounted with the case.

There is a lot of thought put into the nano's interface that protects the user from easily made mistakes, and I can't think of anything more important that protecting against an accidental stopping of the recording. If you had a ten or fifteen second delay, maybe I could understand the request, but a one second delay is hardly a hardship.

I wouldn't think that a preference setting is necessary for a "record stop delay", but if that's the only way to please everyone, I'm not averse.

Billy

Justin Benn · October 28th, 2009, 05:09 PM

Clearly Dan is trying too hard. Dan, would you make a note that you're just doing too much to please people? At the risk of over-inflating the egos working at CD, the Nano/XDR is a very, very GOOD change to my workflow (and those of many others, it seems) and I'm grateful that they take the time to listen to their users.

There's nothing "BAD" about such a decision aside from the fact that it doesn't track your particular tastes. Maybe it is assumed, ergonomically, that the remote is more likely to find itself in the hands of a user during production than the Nano unit itself (depending on CF card size). Hence the disparity. "Six of one, half a dozen of the other".

I'm sure that, if you ask nicely, CD would be happy to oblige and insert a menu option. Or maybe not. For goodness sake, we're lucky that they listen to us and have forums like this. Think of the alternative!

Justin.

Dan Keaton · October 28th, 2009, 05:36 PM

Dear Billy,

Yes, we do try to listen, and we do try to make everyone happy.

I just checked how easy or hard it is to accidently press the Stop buton on my nanoFlash.

One can rub their hand, fingers, etc., over the nanoFlash and the Stop button is not activated.

It takes a deliberate press, immediately over the "Stop" button area to cause it to stop.

Has the stop button been accidently pressed in actual use?

Do you have a nanoFlash handy so you can perform the same test?

Dan Keaton · October 28th, 2009, 05:43 PM

Dear Justin,

Thank you for your support.

Billy Steinberg · October 28th, 2009, 06:31 PM

Dan,

I accidentally pressed the Play button once when I was picking up the nano, not the Stop button, and I have not accidentally pressed the Stop button while recording. I've been very careful ever since I accidentally pressed the Play button. :)

Yes, I have the nano right in front of me, and you do have to press right on the button. Sliding your finger across the surface doesn't press the button unless you are pressing pretty hard while you slide your finger. But note than many of us don't use the nano mounted to a camera. My nano sits on a flat surface and I put little rubber feet on the bottom to keep it from sliding around.

Picking up the nano while not paying sufficient attention makes it pretty easy to hit the Stop (or Record or Play) button. I would normally pick the nano by the sides when I want to move it, but it's not easy to do because one side has the connectors and the 90° side to that has the CF card slots. So if you hold the top and bottom sides to pick it up, you're holding one side with connectors; if you pick it up by the right and left sides, you're holding one side with the CF cards. Neither is a good idea if you're recording at the time. Still, as I said in my previous message, I am fine if a "one second recording stop delay" is a preference.

Justin:

I'm trying not to take your comments as patronizing to Dan and condescending to me, because sometimes feelings don't come across properly in a forum message.

Quote:

"There's nothing "BAD" about such a decision aside from the fact that it doesn't track your particular tastes."

yeah, maybe, until the first time you accidentally hit the Stop button and lose a take. I'm not talking about the color of the nano case or the wording of a menu here, I'm talking about designing the interface to make it difficult to make a mistake that causes you to lose a take.

Quote:

"I'm sure that, if you ask nicely, CD would be happy..."

This comment really pissed me off. I thought I was being nice; I didn't call anyone names, or say that they were stupid, I just said I thought it was a bad decision. I still think it's a bad decision. I do appreciate what Dan and the people at CD do. I do appreciate that they listen to their users, and that they implement changes as rapidly as they do. And I also appreciate that others will use their nano's differently from the way I use mine. I absolutely think that the nano is a ground breaking device at a ground breaking price; that's why I own one.

Do you even own a nano? How do you use yours?

Billy

Dan Keaton · October 28th, 2009, 06:39 PM

Dear Billy,

We will seriously consider your request.

Dan Keaton · October 28th, 2009, 06:43 PM

Dear Billy,

I just discussed this with Mike Schell.

We will consider this when we revamp our menu system.

This is one of our major enhancements that we have planned for November.

Our new Menu system will be much more logical.

While a new menu system does not seem like much, it is a precursor to some very nice features that we have planned.

Billy Steinberg · October 28th, 2009, 09:09 PM

Thanks Dan,

I am looking forward to the improvements you have mentioned in your messages, and I am in no rush for them, except perhaps, for the hot swappable cards. :) I am especially looking forward to "presets". Have you considered the ability to put a presets "file" on the CF card, so that inserting the card presets the nano to the settings you want? This would require the nano to be able to temporarily store the file internally while it formatted the card, and then save it back when it was done (so that you could always be sure you were about to record on a freshly formatted-by-nano card). It would be especially useful for cards that were to be used for playback only, as the "record inhibit" function could be automatically turned on when the card was inserted.

One of the uses I have found for the nano is a test signal generator. I just recorded a bunch of test signals I use all the time on a card, and when I need to test out video lines or calibrate monitors and projectors, it's invaluable. In particular, one of the test signals is used to test video/audio delays. We send signals all over the world, frequently with differing paths (out of our control) with different delays between the audio and video at the other end. We have (expensive!) hardware boxes that send synchronized video with audio beeps, though we often just shoot a person with a clapboard and microphone. I can just plunk the nano down anywhere, and send out the proper synchronizing signals without tying up a tape machine (or even use it before the main video truck is finished hooking up to the e.g., satellite truck).

The nano is turning out to be a most useful device in the remote television production arena.

Thanks!

Billy

Aaron Newsome · October 28th, 2009, 09:16 PM

I'd like to get some of those test signals on my cards :-)

Daniel Symmes · October 28th, 2009, 09:20 PM

To playback true HD from the palm of your hand???

Take this back in a time machine to 1961 and they'd burn you at the stake!*

*More likely if you also brought a 50" monitor with you :o)

Lance Librandi · October 28th, 2009, 10:18 PM

Hello Mike & Dan,
I have now truly become a NanoFlash Junkie and as I read this forum users will always have different requirements. May I make a suggestion for CD offer a paid customising service. While I would want a particular feature others may not and if I think that feature important enough then I would be prepared to pay for it as a custom build in firmware.

October 28th, 2009, 11:11 AM	#1
Billy Steinberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 122	Stop button should not be instantaneous Is there any good reason that the nano's stop button response is instantaneous? It's just too easy to accidentally hit it, and stop the recording. The one second delay that the remote start/stop button or the main power button has would be MUCH appreciated in the stop button as well. Some of us can't depend on timecode start/stop to stop and start the recorder, and it seems pretty silly to have to rig an external start/stop cable just to deal with possible accidental momentary pushes of the stop button on the nano. Also, a note that with the latest firmware, the backlight setting is not remembered from power down to power up. It always comes up without the timeout checked when you power up. Billy

October 28th, 2009, 01:48 PM	#2
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	Billy, For what it's worth, I have the remote cable and just used it the other day. The nano starts up pretty much instantly, which is what we all want, the nano needs about 5 seconds of record time and then you have to press and hold the cable button for at least 2 full seconds to stop the nano from recording. Perhaps the cable may help but no doubt the CD engineers can attend to your issue fairly easily I expect. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

October 28th, 2009, 02:23 PM	#3
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Billy, We used to require that the Stop button be held down for x seconds prior to us stopping the recording. Our users asked us to eliminate this delay. Our users were tired of having to hold the button down to effect the stop. Note: For safety sake, the remote control starts instantly, but all short presses of the remote control switch will be ignored, if we are already recording. One must hold it down for 2 seconds or so, then release it to stop. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 28th, 2009, 02:31 PM	#4
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Don, I am not a Nanoflash owner, but can certainly see both sides of this one. Since this is not a mechanical process, would it be possible to alter this behavior with a menu setting? Something like "Stop Behavior > Instant / 2 Sec / 5 Sec ?? __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

October 28th, 2009, 05:09 PM	#6
Justin Benn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: York, UK. Posts: 224	No offense taken. Clearly Dan is trying too hard. Dan, would you make a note that you're just doing too much to please people? At the risk of over-inflating the egos working at CD, the Nano/XDR is a very, very GOOD change to my workflow (and those of many others, it seems) and I'm grateful that they take the time to listen to their users. There's nothing "BAD" about such a decision aside from the fact that it doesn't track your particular tastes. Maybe it is assumed, ergonomically, that the remote is more likely to find itself in the hands of a user during production than the Nano unit itself (depending on CF card size). Hence the disparity. "Six of one, half a dozen of the other". I'm sure that, if you ask nicely, CD would be happy to oblige and insert a menu option. Or maybe not. For goodness sake, we're lucky that they listen to us and have forums like this. Think of the alternative! Justin.

October 28th, 2009, 05:36 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Billy, Yes, we do try to listen, and we do try to make everyone happy. I just checked how easy or hard it is to accidently press the Stop buton on my nanoFlash. One can rub their hand, fingers, etc., over the nanoFlash and the Stop button is not activated. It takes a deliberate press, immediately over the "Stop" button area to cause it to stop. Has the stop button been accidently pressed in actual use? Do you have a nanoFlash handy so you can perform the same test? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 28th, 2009, 05:43 PM	#8
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Justin, Thank you for your support. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 28th, 2009, 06:39 PM	#10
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Billy, We will seriously consider your request. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 28th, 2009, 06:43 PM	#11
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Billy, I just discussed this with Mike Schell. We will consider this when we revamp our menu system. This is one of our major enhancements that we have planned for November. Our new Menu system will be much more logical. While a new menu system does not seem like much, it is a precursor to some very nice features that we have planned. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 28th, 2009, 09:09 PM	#12
Billy Steinberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 122	Thanks Dan, I am looking forward to the improvements you have mentioned in your messages, and I am in no rush for them, except perhaps, for the hot swappable cards. :) I am especially looking forward to "presets". Have you considered the ability to put a presets "file" on the CF card, so that inserting the card presets the nano to the settings you want? This would require the nano to be able to temporarily store the file internally while it formatted the card, and then save it back when it was done (so that you could always be sure you were about to record on a freshly formatted-by-nano card). It would be especially useful for cards that were to be used for playback only, as the "record inhibit" function could be automatically turned on when the card was inserted. One of the uses I have found for the nano is a test signal generator. I just recorded a bunch of test signals I use all the time on a card, and when I need to test out video lines or calibrate monitors and projectors, it's invaluable. In particular, one of the test signals is used to test video/audio delays. We send signals all over the world, frequently with differing paths (out of our control) with different delays between the audio and video at the other end. We have (expensive!) hardware boxes that send synchronized video with audio beeps, though we often just shoot a person with a clapboard and microphone. I can just plunk the nano down anywhere, and send out the proper synchronizing signals without tying up a tape machine (or even use it before the main video truck is finished hooking up to the e.g., satellite truck). The nano is turning out to be a most useful device in the remote television production arena. Thanks! Billy

October 28th, 2009, 09:16 PM	#13
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	I'd like to get some of those test signals on my cards :-)

October 28th, 2009, 09:20 PM	#14
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	To playback true HD from the palm of your hand??? Take this back in a time machine to 1961 and they'd burn you at the stake!* *More likely if you also brought a 50" monitor with you :o)

October 28th, 2009, 10:18 PM	#15
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hello Mike & Dan, I have now truly become a NanoFlash Junkie and as I read this forum users will always have different requirements. May I make a suggestion for CD offer a paid customising service. While I would want a particular feature others may not and if I think that feature important enough then I would be prepared to pay for it as a custom build in firmware.