nanoFLASH TIME CODE at DVinfo.net

Daniel Symmes · October 15th, 2009, 06:35 PM

Not clear to me is time code "retention."

I'll provide TC through the 10 pin connector, but is it a "jam sync" situation or do I have to keep a TC source connected?

AND, what is the allowed signal range for this TC input?

First of a few questions as shortly I'll be acquiring 4 or 5 units for an upcoming feature shoot.

Dan Keaton · October 15th, 2009, 07:44 PM

Dear Daniel,

We do not currently have "Jam Sync", but we will soon.

Our first implementation of "Jam Sync" will require continuous HD-SDI signal from the camera. We will be using this to "count frames".

If the HD-SDI signal is lost, then the "Jam Sync" source will have to be briefly reconnnected. The same applies if power to the nanoFlash is lost.

It is our intention to put up a message if the "Jam Sync" source is needed again.

Alternatively, one can, at this time, provide external timecode input. This can be via external timecode input, via our 10-Pin Hirose connection (we offer special cables), or via timecode embedded in the HD-SDI input.

Please note: if one is providing the nanoFlash timecode via the embedded HD-SDI signal, then one only needs to "Jam Sync" the camera, and not the nanoFlash.

By signal range, I am assuming you mean how long can the BNC cable be from the timecode source to our timecode input.

I believe that this cable could be hundreds of feet long.

Also, please note that one can use a low cost BNC "Tee" to send the timecode signal to the next device. Our Timecode Input is high impedence.

Please feel free to send me a private email. I can call you to discuss all of your questions.

Daniel Symmes · October 15th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Well, to eliminate cables, I like "sound" to provide the master TC. I can jam my Horita hand held and bring it to the camera. But, the Cunima (and the like) don't "do TC."

So I have to provide it to nanoFLASH. But I don't intend to stay connected (yet another GADGET hanging off the camera). Thus the "jam sync" where your recorder will maintain the jammed TC.

My TC signal question: what voltage range (minimum-maximum) for your device to "see" TC. Some are .5-2V. I know 1V is the norm, but sometimes the signal is weaker and I need to know.

Dan Keaton · October 16th, 2009, 04:09 AM

Dear Daniel,

We follow the SMPTE RP-188 (HD) standard for Timecode embedded in the HD-SDI signal.

I have reqested your specific voltage range spec from our engineers and I will report back, hopefully today.

Dan Keaton · October 16th, 2009, 08:23 AM

Dear Daniel,

Our engineers feel that we typically need at least a 1 volt swing.

-0.5 Volts to +0.5 Volts work.

0 Volts to +1.0 Volts work.

Higher voltage swings also work, 2 volt swings are common and we support these.
Examples would be -1 V to +1 Volt or 0 to 2 volts.

Even higher voltage swings from any standard timecode source should work.

I still think that long cable lengths should be fine.

Once you go over 1000' you may find that an Ambient ClockIt or LockIt box may be more practical.

Also, we will, in the future, offer a GPS receiver as an extra cost option for the nanoFlash.
This will allow our Time-of-Day clock, in the nanoFlash to be set very accuractely.

Each nanoFlash with a GPS receiver will have the same precise Time-of-Day.

Since our internal Time-of-Day clock is already very accurate, one could use one GPS receiver to precisely set mulltiple nanoFlashes to the correct time. For utmost accuracy

Setting our internal Time-of-Day clock will be only one benefit to having this GPS receiver and firmware/software support in the nanoFlash. More to come...........

Alister Chapman · October 16th, 2009, 09:47 AM

Nice idea Dan. If this would work with cheap "mouse" style GPS receivers it will be a viable alternative to lockit boxes etc. Especially as the cameras would never actually need to be connected together.

When will you be releasing the robot adapter so I don't need to go on a shoot anymore? Just kidding, for a basic little black box you guys are really adding some clever tricks.

Dan Keaton · October 16th, 2009, 09:53 AM

Dear Alister,

Sorry, no Robots here!

We intend to offer the GPS receiver as part of our package.

We may find that all or most GPS receivers communicate the same, via RS-232, but we do not know that yet.

Our choosen GPS receiver is fairly small.

Daniel Symmes · October 16th, 2009, 10:03 AM

Thanks, Dan.

Distance isn't an issue. I'm building "cableless" equipment. I'm a film guy from WAY back, and the current trend of cables everywhere is unacceptable.

Now...if we can only get this puppy to work directly with Adobe products...(hopefully w/o the MainConcept $olution). There are many more copies of Premiere than FCP in the wild.

I use AJA Xena 2K for Hollywood work (uncompressed), and hope to find a practical way to get nanoFLASH into that system. So far, too MAC-centric (not starting a platform war, just stating my position).

Billy Steinberg · October 16th, 2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

We intend to offer the GPS receiver as part of our package.

We may find that all or most GPS receivers communicate the same, via RS-232, but we do not know that yet.

Our choosen GPS receiver is fairly small.

Is the GPS receiver you anticipate adding at some point going to be internal to the XDR/nano or external?

If external, most all of the GPS receivers I've looked at lately are bluetooth. (And from the comments I'm reading, a wireless GPS receiver would prove much more useful to everyone than a wired one). Of course, this means the XDR/nano would have to have bluetooth...

Billy

Mike Schell · October 16th, 2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Steinberg

Is the GPS receiver you anticipate adding at some point going to be internal to the XDR/nano or external?

If external, most all of the GPS receivers I've looked at lately are bluetooth. (And from the comments I'm reading, a wireless GPS receiver would prove much more useful to everyone than a wired one). Of course, this means the XDR/nano would have to have bluetooth...

Billy

Hi Billy-
We are planning to use an external GPS receiver from Garmin (about the size of a hockey puck). The GPS unit will plug into the Remote connector on the back of the nanoFlash. Power is supplied from the nanoFlash.

Best-

Daniel Symmes · October 16th, 2009, 11:18 AM

(not that it's on topic but...)

Garmin is an excellent choice. I have a couple of units that work great even in some buildings.

Daniel Symmes · October 17th, 2009, 10:06 AM

Dan -

As I understand it, if I give the nanoFLASH a TC signal....as long as the nanoFLASH has power it will be jam sync'd, meaning I can remove the TC source.

If I remove power, I have to again provide a TC signal.

All this until you add true jam sync.

Mike Schell · October 17th, 2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Symmes

Dan -

As I understand it, if I give the nanoFLASH a TC signal....as long as the nanoFLASH has power it will be jam sync'd, meaning I can remove the TC source.

If I remove power, I have to again provide a TC signal.

All this until you add true jam sync.

Hi Daniel-
The functionality you described will be part of the next firmware release. "True" jam sync is still on the roadmap, but not immenient.

Best-
Mike

Daniel Symmes · October 17th, 2009, 10:54 AM

Good.

I have a feature coming up in December, and even this will help.

Thanks, Mike.

John Mitchell · October 17th, 2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Symmes

Good.

I have a feature coming up in December, and even this will help.

Thanks, Mike.

Daniel - keep in mind that if you can jam sync the cameras with a Lockit box or something, then provided they all spit out embedded tcode in the HD-SDI signal then the Nanos should stay in sync.

October 15th, 2009, 06:35 PM	#1
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	nanoFLASH TIME CODE Not clear to me is time code "retention." I'll provide TC through the 10 pin connector, but is it a "jam sync" situation or do I have to keep a TC source connected? AND, what is the allowed signal range for this TC input? First of a few questions as shortly I'll be acquiring 4 or 5 units for an upcoming feature shoot.

October 15th, 2009, 07:44 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Daniel, We do not currently have "Jam Sync", but we will soon. Our first implementation of "Jam Sync" will require continuous HD-SDI signal from the camera. We will be using this to "count frames". If the HD-SDI signal is lost, then the "Jam Sync" source will have to be briefly reconnnected. The same applies if power to the nanoFlash is lost. It is our intention to put up a message if the "Jam Sync" source is needed again. Alternatively, one can, at this time, provide external timecode input. This can be via external timecode input, via our 10-Pin Hirose connection (we offer special cables), or via timecode embedded in the HD-SDI input. Please note: if one is providing the nanoFlash timecode via the embedded HD-SDI signal, then one only needs to "Jam Sync" the camera, and not the nanoFlash. By signal range, I am assuming you mean how long can the BNC cable be from the timecode source to our timecode input. I believe that this cable could be hundreds of feet long. Also, please note that one can use a low cost BNC "Tee" to send the timecode signal to the next device. Our Timecode Input is high impedence. Please feel free to send me a private email. I can call you to discuss all of your questions. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 16th, 2009, 04:09 AM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Daniel, We follow the SMPTE RP-188 (HD) standard for Timecode embedded in the HD-SDI signal. I have reqested your specific voltage range spec from our engineers and I will report back, hopefully today. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia Last edited by Dan Keaton; October 16th, 2009 at 07:51 AM.

October 16th, 2009, 08:23 AM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Daniel, Our engineers feel that we typically need at least a 1 volt swing. -0.5 Volts to +0.5 Volts work. 0 Volts to +1.0 Volts work. Higher voltage swings also work, 2 volt swings are common and we support these. Examples would be -1 V to +1 Volt or 0 to 2 volts. Even higher voltage swings from any standard timecode source should work. I still think that long cable lengths should be fine. Once you go over 1000' you may find that an Ambient ClockIt or LockIt box may be more practical. Also, we will, in the future, offer a GPS receiver as an extra cost option for the nanoFlash. This will allow our Time-of-Day clock, in the nanoFlash to be set very accuractely. Each nanoFlash with a GPS receiver will have the same precise Time-of-Day. Since our internal Time-of-Day clock is already very accurate, one could use one GPS receiver to precisely set mulltiple nanoFlashes to the correct time. For utmost accuracy Setting our internal Time-of-Day clock will be only one benefit to having this GPS receiver and firmware/software support in the nanoFlash. More to come........... __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 16th, 2009, 09:47 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Nice idea Dan. If this would work with cheap "mouse" style GPS receivers it will be a viable alternative to lockit boxes etc. Especially as the cameras would never actually need to be connected together. When will you be releasing the robot adapter so I don't need to go on a shoot anymore? Just kidding, for a basic little black box you guys are really adding some clever tricks. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 15th, 2009, 08:40 PM	#3
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Well, to eliminate cables, I like "sound" to provide the master TC. I can jam my Horita hand held and bring it to the camera. But, the Cunima (and the like) don't "do TC." So I have to provide it to nanoFLASH. But I don't intend to stay connected (yet another GADGET hanging off the camera). Thus the "jam sync" where your recorder will maintain the jammed TC. My TC signal question: what voltage range (minimum-maximum) for your device to "see" TC. Some are .5-2V. I know 1V is the norm, but sometimes the signal is weaker and I need to know.

October 16th, 2009, 09:53 AM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Alister, Sorry, no Robots here! We intend to offer the GPS receiver as part of our package. We may find that all or most GPS receivers communicate the same, via RS-232, but we do not know that yet. Our choosen GPS receiver is fairly small. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 16th, 2009, 10:03 AM	#8
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Thanks, Dan. Distance isn't an issue. I'm building "cableless" equipment. I'm a film guy from WAY back, and the current trend of cables everywhere is unacceptable. Now...if we can only get this puppy to work directly with Adobe products...(hopefully w/o the MainConcept $olution). There are many more copies of Premiere than FCP in the wild. I use AJA Xena 2K for Hollywood work (uncompressed), and hope to find a practical way to get nanoFLASH into that system. So far, too MAC-centric (not starting a platform war, just stating my position).

October 16th, 2009, 11:18 AM	#11
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	(not that it's on topic but...) Garmin is an excellent choice. I have a couple of units that work great even in some buildings.

October 17th, 2009, 10:06 AM	#12
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Dan - As I understand it, if I give the nanoFLASH a TC signal....as long as the nanoFLASH has power it will be jam sync'd, meaning I can remove the TC source. If I remove power, I have to again provide a TC signal. All this until you add true jam sync.

October 17th, 2009, 10:54 AM	#14
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Good. I have a feature coming up in December, and even this will help. Thanks, Mike.