New XDR / nanoFlash Firmware

Lance Librandi · October 11th, 2009, 08:54 PM

Thanks Dan I will pose the question to Apple.

Matt Chandler · October 13th, 2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schell

Hi Rob-
We will try to get HDMI Pull-down removal in the next release, due in 2-3 weeks.

Best-

this would be fantastic. Upon reading through the forums here more and more - ive realised the setup im trying to pipe out is all via HDMI, which has a few limitations it appears at the moment.

HDMI Pull-Down would be great. Please do try and get this in the next release. I cant use the HDMI from HV40 until this is implemented. The Canon HV40's also have true native 24p - though ive read that HDMI wont support this? Thats a shame.
Have you guys tested any of these models?

Dean Harrington · October 13th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance Librandi

Hi Mike & Dan,
I have upgraded my Nano to the new firmware no problems work well just trying out the time lapse now. I get my new Mac Pro 8 core with Decklink HD Extreme this week and the Mac comes with "Snow Leopard" installed. While researching for known issues with "Snow Leopard", I found an old post regarding CF cards been damaged during the eject process from the USB readers. Is this still a problem and is the Lexar firewire readers also effected or has this issue been resolved by the updated firmware.
Thanks

I have also been reluctant to install the firmware update because of operating in Snow Leopard. Hope to find out as I don't want to burn CF cards.

Lance Librandi · October 14th, 2009, 12:33 AM

Hello All,
I spent quite some time with Apple support on this issue of damaged cards on ejection. To cut a long story short Apple support are not aware of this problem and have not had anyone report this issue. The support staff member came on the DVinfo site and I directed him to the thread listing the problem. He then searched his database and again confirmed that there is no listing or report of this problem. He came to the conclusion that because the reports date back to January this year and there have been OS updates that if there was a problem it would have been fixed by now.

Well I have my new Mack Pro here with Snow Leopard installed I guess the only way to find out is to use the adventure technique or play safe and do not eject the cards as has been suggested.

Dan Keaton · October 14th, 2009, 03:19 AM

Dear Lance,

Apple has two systems to report problems such as these.

They are called "Sonar" and "Radar".

This problem is in at least one of these systems.

We have confirmation from Apple directly that they are aware of the problem.

We even sent them the original Macbook that caused some cards to fail to them. And we supplied cards to them for testing.

Lance Librandi · October 14th, 2009, 07:08 AM

Hello Dan thank you for your reply. This is a very frustrating situation where Apple has not passed the information on to the support staff. I am still no wiser, has Apple fixed the problem or is it still an issue?
Dan can you tell me was the defect card that you sent to Apple physically damaged or destroyed beyond use or was it just data corruption and reformatting the card allow it to be reused.
I intend to invest in 64GB cards as soon as you have approved them for use and I would not be a happy chap if my computer destroyed a high valued card and losing the data as well.
Surely it's not just effecting CF cards it would also effect SxS, SDHC, firewire and USB cards.

Would you still be advocating not to use the eject procedure with “Snow Leopard” at this time?
Many Thanks

Dan Keaton · October 14th, 2009, 07:33 AM

Dear Lance.

We would love for Apple to communicate that they found the problem and have fixed it.

Before we do that, the absolute safest way is to never put a CompactFlash card in a Mac.

The Transcend cards, the original ones without overvoltage protection were physically destroyed, under certain conditions, in Leopard. In one case, we know that the cards got very hot.

Many, but not all, other cards have overvoltage protection.

It is very hard to provide perfect technical advice for this.
The problem is componded by the number of users and the variety of systems people use.

For example, if 99% of the cards that were in use with our units where Transcend when Apple changed over to Leopard, then most of the problems would be linked to the Transcend cards.

In theory, a CompactFlash card need not have overvoltage protection, as a computer should not output an illegal voltage.

We feel that Apple Leopard has affected more cards than just Transcend. I feel that it may take longer for other cards to fail in Leopard, but we do know it happens. This appears to happen across all brands of cards.

Disclaimer: We just became a dealer for Nexto DI.

We feel that the safest way is to use an intermediate device, such as the Nexto DI eXtreme 2700.

This allows one to, on-set, copy the contents of their CompactFlash cards to the internal 500 GB hard drive.

Then, while the card is safely stored away, the Nexto can be connected to a computer, included a Mac with Leopard, and the transfer can occur at very fast speeds via eSATA, or at slower speeds via USB 2.0.

I hope you see our delimma. We have been recommending the Nexto DI since December 2008. Now that we are a dealer for Nexto we want everyone to know that we still feel that this is the safest method. But we now have an interest in this so our advice could be considered tainted.

The Nexto gives you many options.

If one wants to still load the CompactFlash cards into a card reader attached to a Mac, then copying the card to the Nexto first is a great idea.

I like going out on set and at the earliest convenience loading the files into the Nexto for safety purposes.

The Nexto DI is very smart in that it allows you to copy the files that are on a CompactFlash card, then you may continue to use the card. When you put the same card back into the Nexto DI, it will only copy the new files.

Then I like the 500 GB storage size so that you can store quite a lot of footage for backup purposes.

Another option is to first load the cards into the Nexto DI, then use attach it to your computer to do the file transfer. This is much faster than most card readers.

This ensures that the card is not harmed by Leopard.

Ned Soltz · October 14th, 2009, 07:43 AM

I have safely been able to eject a Sandisk 32gb CF card in a card reader on both MacPro and MacBook Pro. FWIW

Ned Soltz

Dan Keaton · October 14th, 2009, 07:50 AM

Dear Ned,

We have very few problems with the SanDisk Extreme III 32 GB cards.

This is the main reason why we recommend them.

The problem with Apple Leopard is that the problem is highly intermittent. This has really frustated Apple in their attempt to determine the cause of the problem.

We sent a Mac to Apple, one which had destroyed 8 Transcend cards, with a few Transcend cards, and they could not get it to fail!

Many PC users continue to use the Transcend 133x cards. We have never received a report of a problem from Apple Tiger users, nor any PC user.

It is too early to tell, but we have no reported problems with Snow Leopard.

At this time, if one wants to use CompactFlash cards with Apple Leopard, we recommend that one just physically pull the card out when the transfer is complete. One will get an error message, but this can just be acknowledged by pressing OK.

We recommend against using the Eject Command and avoid dragging and dropping the Card Reader Icon to the trash.
The problem is that old habits die hard.

Also, while we recommend the above techniques, these do not provide 100% protection from the problem.

Another reason why we recommend the SanDisk cards is that they recommend a company that, for a fee, will attempt to get data off a card that is not working. They will even perform surgery on a card in an attempt to retrieve the data. I believe the fee for this service is $175, but the results are not guaranteed.

Rafael Amador · October 14th, 2009, 08:02 AM

I'm using the SanDisk Extreme IV.
I use the supplied USB reader or a Lexar FW.
No problem ejecting the cards with Leopard.
rafael

Mark Job · October 14th, 2009, 08:24 AM

Hi Dan:
I have been using 2 x 32 GB Extreme III and 1 x 16 GB Extreme IV cards in the CD supplied USB 2.0 card reader and I use a very recent 2009 vintage top 24 inch iMAC model computer without issue with the cards. I use the "Eject" command without issue. If I just pull out the USB 2 reader without first ejecting it, then I get an error message which I can't close and my iMac semi locks up. Only a reboot makes that message go away. I can format my cards on my XDR without issue and shoot and re-record without issue.

Aaron Newsome · October 14th, 2009, 10:13 AM

Hi Dan. Any chance you'll sell Nexto DI sans HD? I'd like to buy one "NOW"!

Lance Librandi · October 14th, 2009, 05:06 PM

Thanks for that Dan looks like I have my Apple names mixed up. What you are saying is the problem happened with Apple Leopard Version 10.5 not Apple Snow Leopard version 10.6. Have I got that right and you have not had the problem with Sandisk CF cards the problem has only been with Transcend 133x cards cards?

Oops I up graded My Macbook Pro to Apple Leopard version 10.5 in April have been using it with all my Sandisk CF cards unaware of the problem till now.
Bugger!

Dan Keaton · October 14th, 2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

Hi Dan. Any chance you'll sell Nexto DI sans HD? I'd like to buy one "NOW"!

Dear Aaron,

Sorry, but no. We are not allowed to.

The disk drive in the Nexto Di's is critical.

Since it is a small device, it is typically used hand-held. This is very bad for many disk drives. It is far better for most disk drives to be on a solid surface when they are operating.

Some major brands of laptop hard drives can handle being moved while writing to the disk, others can not.

Nexto worked very hard to come up with a reliable disk drive for this environment. I was amazed at the major brands that caused problems.

So, this unit requires a very high quality drive to work well.

In essense, Nexto was not happy when warranty problems which were caused by the user using an unsuitable disk drive. So, they no longer sell the units without a disk drive.

Dan Keaton · October 14th, 2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance Librandi

Thanks for that Dan looks like I have my Apple names mixed up. What you are saying is the problem happened with Apple Leopard Version 10.5 not Apple Snow Leopard version 10.6. Have I got that right and you have not had the problem with Sandisk CF cards the problem has only been with Transcend 133x cards cards?

Oops I up graded My Macbook Pro to Apple Leopard version 10.5 in April have been using it with all my Sandisk CF cards unaware of the problem till now.
Bugger!

Yes, Apple Leopard, Version 10.5 was the start of the problem. Apple announced, in a technical bulletin, that they were changing their "Voltage Levels" with this release.

Apple Tiger, Version 10.4 did not have the problem.

We do not know enough to determine if Apple Snow Leopard, 10.6, has the problem or not.

With Leopard, the failures with the Transcend cards was widespread.

With Leopard, the failures with SanDisk are significantly less, but we are still concerned.

With Leopard, some of every brand of card has failed.

We still feel that avoiding the Eject Command and Drag and Drop to the Trash, of the Card Reader Icon, should be avoided as a precaution.

October 14th, 2009, 03:19 AM	#20
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Lance, Apple has two systems to report problems such as these. They are called "Sonar" and "Radar". This problem is in at least one of these systems. We have confirmation from Apple directly that they are aware of the problem. We even sent them the original Macbook that caused some cards to fail to them. And we supplied cards to them for testing. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 14th, 2009, 07:33 AM	#22
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Lance. We would love for Apple to communicate that they found the problem and have fixed it. Before we do that, the absolute safest way is to never put a CompactFlash card in a Mac. The Transcend cards, the original ones without overvoltage protection were physically destroyed, under certain conditions, in Leopard. In one case, we know that the cards got very hot. Many, but not all, other cards have overvoltage protection. It is very hard to provide perfect technical advice for this. The problem is componded by the number of users and the variety of systems people use. For example, if 99% of the cards that were in use with our units where Transcend when Apple changed over to Leopard, then most of the problems would be linked to the Transcend cards. In theory, a CompactFlash card need not have overvoltage protection, as a computer should not output an illegal voltage. We feel that Apple Leopard has affected more cards than just Transcend. I feel that it may take longer for other cards to fail in Leopard, but we do know it happens. This appears to happen across all brands of cards. Disclaimer: We just became a dealer for Nexto DI. We feel that the safest way is to use an intermediate device, such as the Nexto DI eXtreme 2700. This allows one to, on-set, copy the contents of their CompactFlash cards to the internal 500 GB hard drive. Then, while the card is safely stored away, the Nexto can be connected to a computer, included a Mac with Leopard, and the transfer can occur at very fast speeds via eSATA, or at slower speeds via USB 2.0. I hope you see our delimma. We have been recommending the Nexto DI since December 2008. Now that we are a dealer for Nexto we want everyone to know that we still feel that this is the safest method. But we now have an interest in this so our advice could be considered tainted. The Nexto gives you many options. If one wants to still load the CompactFlash cards into a card reader attached to a Mac, then copying the card to the Nexto first is a great idea. I like going out on set and at the earliest convenience loading the files into the Nexto for safety purposes. The Nexto DI is very smart in that it allows you to copy the files that are on a CompactFlash card, then you may continue to use the card. When you put the same card back into the Nexto DI, it will only copy the new files. Then I like the 500 GB storage size so that you can store quite a lot of footage for backup purposes. Another option is to first load the cards into the Nexto DI, then use attach it to your computer to do the file transfer. This is much faster than most card readers. This ensures that the card is not harmed by Leopard. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 14th, 2009, 07:50 AM	#24
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Ned, We have very few problems with the SanDisk Extreme III 32 GB cards. This is the main reason why we recommend them. The problem with Apple Leopard is that the problem is highly intermittent. This has really frustated Apple in their attempt to determine the cause of the problem. We sent a Mac to Apple, one which had destroyed 8 Transcend cards, with a few Transcend cards, and they could not get it to fail! Many PC users continue to use the Transcend 133x cards. We have never received a report of a problem from Apple Tiger users, nor any PC user. It is too early to tell, but we have no reported problems with Snow Leopard. At this time, if one wants to use CompactFlash cards with Apple Leopard, we recommend that one just physically pull the card out when the transfer is complete. One will get an error message, but this can just be acknowledged by pressing OK. We recommend against using the Eject Command and avoid dragging and dropping the Card Reader Icon to the trash. The problem is that old habits die hard. Also, while we recommend the above techniques, these do not provide 100% protection from the problem. Another reason why we recommend the SanDisk cards is that they recommend a company that, for a fee, will attempt to get data off a card that is not working. They will even perform surgery on a card in an attempt to retrieve the data. I believe the fee for this service is $175, but the results are not guaranteed. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 14th, 2009, 08:24 AM	#26
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	No Trashed Sandisk CF Cards in Snow Leopard Yet Hi Dan: I have been using 2 x 32 GB Extreme III and 1 x 16 GB Extreme IV cards in the CD supplied USB 2.0 card reader and I use a very recent 2009 vintage top 24 inch iMAC model computer without issue with the cards. I use the "Eject" command without issue. If I just pull out the USB 2 reader without first ejecting it, then I get an error message which I can't close and my iMac semi locks up. Only a reboot makes that message go away. I can format my cards on my XDR without issue and shoot and re-record without issue.

October 11th, 2009, 08:54 PM	#16
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Thanks Dan I will pose the question to Apple.

October 14th, 2009, 12:33 AM	#19
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hello All, I spent quite some time with Apple support on this issue of damaged cards on ejection. To cut a long story short Apple support are not aware of this problem and have not had anyone report this issue. The support staff member came on the DVinfo site and I directed him to the thread listing the problem. He then searched his database and again confirmed that there is no listing or report of this problem. He came to the conclusion that because the reports date back to January this year and there have been OS updates that if there was a problem it would have been fixed by now. Well I have my new Mack Pro here with Snow Leopard installed I guess the only way to find out is to use the adventure technique or play safe and do not eject the cards as has been suggested.

October 14th, 2009, 07:08 AM	#21
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hello Dan thank you for your reply. This is a very frustrating situation where Apple has not passed the information on to the support staff. I am still no wiser, has Apple fixed the problem or is it still an issue? Dan can you tell me was the defect card that you sent to Apple physically damaged or destroyed beyond use or was it just data corruption and reformatting the card allow it to be reused. I intend to invest in 64GB cards as soon as you have approved them for use and I would not be a happy chap if my computer destroyed a high valued card and losing the data as well. Surely it's not just effecting CF cards it would also effect SxS, SDHC, firewire and USB cards. Would you still be advocating not to use the eject procedure with “Snow Leopard” at this time? Many Thanks

October 14th, 2009, 07:43 AM	#23
Ned Soltz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 659	I have safely been able to eject a Sandisk 32gb CF card in a card reader on both MacPro and MacBook Pro. FWIW Ned Soltz

October 14th, 2009, 08:02 AM	#25
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	I'm using the SanDisk Extreme IV. I use the supplied USB reader or a Lexar FW. No problem ejecting the cards with Leopard. rafael

October 14th, 2009, 10:13 AM	#27
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Hi Dan. Any chance you'll sell Nexto DI sans HD? I'd like to buy one "NOW"!

October 14th, 2009, 05:06 PM	#28
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Thanks for that Dan looks like I have my Apple names mixed up. What you are saying is the problem happened with Apple Leopard Version 10.5 not Apple Snow Leopard version 10.6. Have I got that right and you have not had the problem with Sandisk CF cards the problem has only been with Transcend 133x cards cards? Oops I up graded My Macbook Pro to Apple Leopard version 10.5 in April have been using it with all my Sandisk CF cards unaware of the problem till now. Bugger!