Second Shoot with XDR @ 50 Mbps at DVinfo.net

Mark Job · October 2nd, 2009, 09:46 PM

Hi Friends:
I just completed my second shoot with the XDR recording @ the 50 Mbps setting in Long GOP format. I was again able to achieve perfect picture and sound. I must say I couldn't really see much difference between this and the 100 Mbps Long GOP setting I used in last week's shoot. The only perceptable difference I could see is a slight increase in overall graininess, and I do mean *slight.* I think a 75 Mbps setting would be a new possible sweet spot in compression vs quality.

Dan Keaton · October 2nd, 2009, 10:53 PM

Dear Mark,

We are considering adding your request.

Mark Job · October 3rd, 2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Mark,

We are considering adding your request.

....Hi Dan: OK. Great ! Thanks Dan :-) When will we XDR owners see the next firmware update ?

Dan Keaton · October 3rd, 2009, 10:49 AM

Dear Mark,

Our target date is October 9th.

Mark Job · October 3rd, 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Mark,

Our target date is October 9th.

...Hi Dan: Yay ! Cool ! Thanks ! :-)

Gints Klimanis · October 12th, 2009, 03:34 PM

Mark, what camera are you using? What are your impressions of your XDR recording vs. whatever you had before? If you recorded in parallel on your camera's internal media system, please post some frame grabs for comparison. I'm willing to host the files on my server if you need it.

Thank you very much.

Mark Job · October 12th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Hi Gints:
The XDR has very excellent video and audio quality. Of this there can be absolutely no dispute. CD has also been working on improving the overall stability of the XDR and slowly adding features over the past year since its introduction. (Just added Timelapse and 3:2 pull down removal for Canon cameras with 24 F. I haven't yet tested the new 3:2 pull down removal, but I will sure get around to testing that this week.

I test and shoot everything on the Canon XL H1. Regarding the in camera HDV encoder, and the overall quality of Canon's HDV internal video, I have to say it is the very best any HDV video can look. The XL H1's HDV video quality is superior to comparable Sony HDV camcorders.

Using the Canon XL H1 simultaneously with HDV cassette recording in camera and external XDR box is very sweet indeed. It is always good to have a backup, and the XDR will allow you to do simul recording along with two caveates.

Caveate 1: You must setup the XDR to be triggered by *embedded Time Code* from the XL H1's TC sourced out. This process will take several moments to start the XDR, since the Canon cameras don't seem to output TC from their TC out jacks untill the cassette is rolling and time code is being recorded to that first. I think this is what we call *Regenerated TC ?*

Caveate 2: If you have been on pause for a few minutes and are waiting to shoot then the Canon cameras usually unrap the HDV tape from the heads, so if you press record, then you have to wait a few seconds for Canopn to put the tape back on the recording heads, then roll, then wait a few seconds more for the XDR to get the embedded TC signal out from the camera and start its recording.

* I have found this delay to be minimal if you use the fastest rated CF cards listed by Convergent Designs. I find that the faster the CF card media, then the more zippy the response from the XDR.

I would be happy to upload to you some side by side tests I have shot with the XDR to your server if you PM me and give me your server access codes.

I would like to see the following features added and hardware actually turned on.

1. 96 Khz 24 bit analogue audio recording.
2. Jamn Sync TC from external sources.
3. Uncompressed RAW video recording.
4. Having the FireWire inteface enabled on the XDR device.
5. Having the RS-422 control interface enable on the XDR device.
**6. Based on Paul's suggestion, I also would like to have overcrank added if possible.

* The potential this unit has as a VTR replacement is indeed fascinating. To be able to walk into a TV station or Network head office and grab a quick dub from an HDCAM SR VTR and head back to the editing suite and simply import the clips from a CF card, or even having a playout via the XDR's HD - SDI output into a computer capture card, then re-editing it and outputting that back to the CF card, popping the card back into the XDR, going back to the station and having it playback out to the HDCAM SR VTR via the HD-SDI interface would be the ultimate.

Lance Librandi · October 13th, 2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Job

Hi Friends:
I think a 75 Mbps setting would be a new possible sweet spot in I think a 75 Mbps setting would be a new possible sweet spot in compression vs quality. .

Hello Dan,
I agree with Mark that 75Mbps would a very worth while addition not only for compression vs quality but for compression vs CF capacity or time. With long form work I have found that we need to operate continuous for a minimum of 90 minutes or just over. Currently I have to drop down to 50Mbps to get that duration on 2 by 32GB cards which gives us 142 minutes. Should we have the 75Mbps this would be the sweet spot for time vs compression.

Thanks

Dan Keaton · October 13th, 2009, 06:09 AM

Dear Mark and Lance,

Ok, we have two votes for 75 Mbps.

Voting is still open!

We are considering this.

Paul Cronin · October 13th, 2009, 07:02 AM

I think 50 and 100 are fine and would like to see you put the time to overcrank in 1080p. Just my vote.

Lance Librandi · October 13th, 2009, 03:52 PM

Hello Dan,
After further consideration and having just read the post on the implementation of "Hot Swapping" and with the 64GB cards to soon get approval, I will have to agree with Paul.

Thanks

October 2nd, 2009, 09:46 PM	#1
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	Second Shoot with XDR @ 50 Mbps Hi Friends: I just completed my second shoot with the XDR recording @ the 50 Mbps setting in Long GOP format. I was again able to achieve perfect picture and sound. I must say I couldn't really see much difference between this and the 100 Mbps Long GOP setting I used in last week's shoot. The only perceptable difference I could see is a slight increase in overall graininess, and I do mean slight. I think a 75 Mbps setting would be a new possible sweet spot in compression vs quality.

October 2nd, 2009, 10:53 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mark, We are considering adding your request. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 3rd, 2009, 10:49 AM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mark, Our target date is October 9th. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 12th, 2009, 05:25 PM	#7
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	XDR Quality Impressions Hi Gints: The XDR has very excellent video and audio quality. Of this there can be absolutely no dispute. CD has also been working on improving the overall stability of the XDR and slowly adding features over the past year since its introduction. (Just added Timelapse and 3:2 pull down removal for Canon cameras with 24 F. I haven't yet tested the new 3:2 pull down removal, but I will sure get around to testing that this week. I test and shoot everything on the Canon XL H1. Regarding the in camera HDV encoder, and the overall quality of Canon's HDV internal video, I have to say it is the very best any HDV video can look. The XL H1's HDV video quality is superior to comparable Sony HDV camcorders. Using the Canon XL H1 simultaneously with HDV cassette recording in camera and external XDR box is very sweet indeed. It is always good to have a backup, and the XDR will allow you to do simul recording along with two caveates. Caveate 1: You must setup the XDR to be triggered by embedded Time Code from the XL H1's TC sourced out. This process will take several moments to start the XDR, since the Canon cameras don't seem to output TC from their TC out jacks untill the cassette is rolling and time code is being recorded to that first. I think this is what we call Regenerated TC ? Caveate 2: If you have been on pause for a few minutes and are waiting to shoot then the Canon cameras usually unrap the HDV tape from the heads, so if you press record, then you have to wait a few seconds for Canopn to put the tape back on the recording heads, then roll, then wait a few seconds more for the XDR to get the embedded TC signal out from the camera and start its recording. * I have found this delay to be minimal if you use the fastest rated CF cards listed by Convergent Designs. I find that the faster the CF card media, then the more zippy the response from the XDR. I would be happy to upload to you some side by side tests I have shot with the XDR to your server if you PM me and give me your server access codes. I would like to see the following features added and hardware actually turned on. 1. 96 Khz 24 bit analogue audio recording. 2. Jamn Sync TC from external sources. 3. Uncompressed RAW video recording. 4. Having the FireWire inteface enabled on the XDR device. 5. Having the RS-422 control interface enable on the XDR device. *6. Based on Paul's suggestion, I also would like to have overcrank added if possible. The potential this unit has as a VTR replacement is indeed fascinating. To be able to walk into a TV station or Network head office and grab a quick dub from an HDCAM SR VTR and head back to the editing suite and simply import the clips from a CF card, or even having a playout via the XDR's HD - SDI output into a computer capture card, then re-editing it and outputting that back to the CF card, popping the card back into the XDR, going back to the station and having it playback out to the HDCAM SR VTR via the HD-SDI interface would be the ultimate. Last edited by Mark Job; October 13th, 2009 at 08:55 AM.

October 13th, 2009, 06:09 AM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mark and Lance, Ok, we have two votes for 75 Mbps. Voting is still open! We are considering this. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 12th, 2009, 03:34 PM	#6
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Mark, what camera are you using? What are your impressions of your XDR recording vs. whatever you had before? If you recorded in parallel on your camera's internal media system, please post some frame grabs for comparison. I'm willing to host the files on my server if you need it. Thank you very much.

October 13th, 2009, 07:02 AM	#10
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	I think 50 and 100 are fine and would like to see you put the time to overcrank in 1080p. Just my vote. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 13th, 2009, 03:52 PM	#11
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hello Dan, After further consideration and having just read the post on the implementation of "Hot Swapping" and with the 64GB cards to soon get approval, I will have to agree with Paul. Thanks