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Bob Griffiths · September 10th, 2009, 03:04 PM

Hi all,

I have been following the CD threads in this forum with an eye toward purchasing a nanoFlash. Hopefully I'm not making the noob mistake going over old ground.

First, am VERY impressed with Mike and Dan's level of communication on this forum and you are to be congratulated for partnering with your customers in such an outstanding way.

A couple questions:
- Does the XDCAM HD422 codec that you use carry metadata? I want to use ProxyMill from Imagine Products to create proxies with timecode but Proxymill needs metadata to do it. Can do?

- How far over the horizon are 64GB 45MB/s cards. Although you say 100MB L-GOP is the "sweet spot", I have never been a fan of L-GOP editing (although your arguments are compelling)... and may go with i-Frame at 160 or higher. The need for larger storage is obvious. I have seen 64GB 60MB/s x400x cards on the Sandisk Business Solutions site: Compact Flash ... but are they a viable alternative or just a fantasy?

And I have a product suggestion...
- Have you considered consolidating your contiguous files with Reference Movies that are generated by the nanoFlash. FireStore has this feature and it is a great one... cutting down on bin clutter and giving the editor logical files to work with, particularly with long interviews. The FireStore implementation is that, just prior to dumping the disk, you run a utility that creates the Ref Movie and then it downlods with everything else. Possible?

This looks like a terrific product and I am excited by the possibilities of working with it!

Thanks,
Bob
FireDancer Productions, Inc.
http://www.FireDancer.tv

Dan Keaton · September 10th, 2009, 06:09 PM

Dear Bob,

Thanks for the kind words. We feel that open communication helps us all.

We have been working on Metadata. We will need to know what specific metadata ProxyMill needs.

We have learned of the SanDisk 64 GB CompactFlash card. As you say, it is posted on their website, but it does not appear to be ready to ship. We are checking it out.

Other 64 GB CompactFlash cards have been announced. We have checked out one, and it was not acceptable, so allow us to fully qualify them before you purchase any.

We are enthused about the 64 GB CompactFlash cards from SanDisk.

Bob, I was not familar with Reference Movies. We will check into this. Thanks for the heads up!

Bob Griffiths · September 10th, 2009, 06:45 PM

Hi Dan,

Here's a link to the FireStore manual on Reference files:
http://www.videonics.com/dynassets/d...L-1023-10).pdf . The section on Reference movies is on page 78.

Pretty much what I figured on the 64GB cards... such is technology. I'll wait for your OK.

As for the metadata, I have no idea what ProxyMill requires but I have sent a note off to a support guy there that I have traded a few emails with. The best deal is to probably connect you guys so you can talk tech. If he agrees, how do you want to get in touch with him? I have his email.

Thanks,
Bob
FireDancer Productions, Inc.

Dan Keaton · September 10th, 2009, 07:58 PM

Dear Bob,

You could just send me an email with his email address.

If you left click on my name to the left of this post, you can send me an email.

Alister Chapman · September 11th, 2009, 09:41 AM

ProxyMill works with .MOV files from the NanoFlash. I have it and it works with my 1920x1080 HD clips without issue. It doesn't work with NanoFlash MXF's

Bob Griffiths · September 11th, 2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

ProxyMill works with .MOV files from the NanoFlash. I have it and it works with my 1920x1080 HD clips without issue.

Hi Alister,

Been following your exploits with the nanoFlash... thanks for all the great reporting.

My tests with the Moto2.mov file from the CD site shows that that clip does not supply TC to ProxyMill. In QT, the Moto2.mov file starts at 00:00:19:24 NDF. When I ran it through ProxyMill and I got a 00:00:00:00 starting TC. This was done at the "Large" compression setting, no vizcode. Tried a few others too... no luck. Dan K. had suggest that i do this test so I assumed that the file has TC on it.

I really want you to be right about this! Any ideas? Thanks!

Dan Keaton · September 11th, 2009, 08:17 PM

Dear Bob,

The motorcycle clips were shot with a POV camera.

As it was a single camera shoot, I do not think timecode was recorded.

The nanoFlash and Flash XDR have the ability to generate timecode internally.

But, unless it was used (and it may not have been available when this was shot), then the timecode will be 0:0:0;0.

We need to get you better test files!

And, we are working with ProxyMill to ensure that our timecode is visible to their software.

Bob Griffiths · September 11th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

But, unless it was used (and it may not have been available when this was shot), then the timecode will be 0:0:0;0.

The 00:00:00;00 code was what I saw on the moto v1.mov file. If anyone has a short clip that they know has TC, I would love to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

And, we are working with ProxyMill to ensure that our timecode is visible to their software.

I saw the exchange between Dan Montgomery & Tommy. Cool... please let me know how this shakes out.

Thanks!

Tommy Schell · September 14th, 2009, 10:37 AM

Here are some newer samples to try out (I'm not sure how the timecode was handled in those other files) :

(20 Mbytes each)
http://69.15.88.17/downloads/qt_web/...le_50i.MOV.zip

http://69.15.88.17/downloads/mxf_web...le_50i.MXF.zip

Tommy

Bob Griffiths · September 14th, 2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Schell

Here are some newer samples to try out, Tommy

I downloaded both but I don't have the mxf player. I processed the .mov and the file worked like a charm! The 22.8MB file compressed all the way down to 40k using the lowest settings in ProxyMill... and kept the TC! Woo-hoo!

So why all the fuss? Here's the workflow plan: I shoot roughly 30 minute interviews in the field with the nanoFlash. I import with ShotPut Pro and ProxyMill. I then send these miniscule compressed files to a writer I work with who also has FCP. Rather than working from text transcripts, he prefers to edit directly in the timeline chopping the interview bites together. He imports them to FCP, cuts these interview files down into the baseline of a story, and sends me an audio file. We go a couple rounds agreeing on the final version, and then he sends me a FCP project that I reconnect to the original media. I add, b-roll, music, etc. and... Voila!... done.

Thanks to Tommy sending these files... and them working... we have now completed testing on this workflow and will use it on the next job.

So Alister, you're entitled to a big "... I told you so!..." and thanks to Tommy, Dan, Mike at CD and Dan at Imagine Products for all their help!

Alister Chapman · September 14th, 2009, 01:32 PM

I'm with you Bob, sometime you just have to see it work for yourself! Glad it's all sorted.

Bob Griffiths · September 14th, 2009, 01:51 PM

The files sizes are working out larger than we hoped because those tiny 40k files are using the AAC encoder for audio... which won't play in real time in FCP without a render. Makes it hard to cut up a file if you constantly have to re-render.

The smallest I could get that file to is 304k using mp4 at 15fps and PCM audio. The better audio accounts for the difference... but it plays in real time.

You wouldn't know of an audio codec that will play in real time in FCP that will offer higher compression rates, would you?

Thanks!

September 10th, 2009, 03:04 PM	#1
Bob Griffiths Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Carbondale, Colorado Posts: 117	Lurker joining the discussion... Hi all, I have been following the CD threads in this forum with an eye toward purchasing a nanoFlash. Hopefully I'm not making the noob mistake going over old ground. First, am VERY impressed with Mike and Dan's level of communication on this forum and you are to be congratulated for partnering with your customers in such an outstanding way. A couple questions: - Does the XDCAM HD422 codec that you use carry metadata? I want to use ProxyMill from Imagine Products to create proxies with timecode but Proxymill needs metadata to do it. Can do? - How far over the horizon are 64GB 45MB/s cards. Although you say 100MB L-GOP is the "sweet spot", I have never been a fan of L-GOP editing (although your arguments are compelling)... and may go with i-Frame at 160 or higher. The need for larger storage is obvious. I have seen 64GB 60MB/s x400x cards on the Sandisk Business Solutions site: Compact Flash ... but are they a viable alternative or just a fantasy? And I have a product suggestion... - Have you considered consolidating your contiguous files with Reference Movies that are generated by the nanoFlash. FireStore has this feature and it is a great one... cutting down on bin clutter and giving the editor logical files to work with, particularly with long interviews. The FireStore implementation is that, just prior to dumping the disk, you run a utility that creates the Ref Movie and then it downlods with everything else. Possible? This looks like a terrific product and I am excited by the possibilities of working with it! Thanks, Bob FireDancer Productions, Inc. http://www.FireDancer.tv

September 10th, 2009, 06:09 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bob, Thanks for the kind words. We feel that open communication helps us all. We have been working on Metadata. We will need to know what specific metadata ProxyMill needs. We have learned of the SanDisk 64 GB CompactFlash card. As you say, it is posted on their website, but it does not appear to be ready to ship. We are checking it out. Other 64 GB CompactFlash cards have been announced. We have checked out one, and it was not acceptable, so allow us to fully qualify them before you purchase any. We are enthused about the 64 GB CompactFlash cards from SanDisk. Bob, I was not familar with Reference Movies. We will check into this. Thanks for the heads up! __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 10th, 2009, 07:58 PM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bob, You could just send me an email with his email address. If you left click on my name to the left of this post, you can send me an email. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 11th, 2009, 09:41 AM	#5
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	ProxyMill works with .MOV files from the NanoFlash. I have it and it works with my 1920x1080 HD clips without issue. It doesn't work with NanoFlash MXF's __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 11th, 2009, 08:17 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bob, The motorcycle clips were shot with a POV camera. As it was a single camera shoot, I do not think timecode was recorded. The nanoFlash and Flash XDR have the ability to generate timecode internally. But, unless it was used (and it may not have been available when this was shot), then the timecode will be 0:0:0;0. We need to get you better test files! And, we are working with ProxyMill to ensure that our timecode is visible to their software. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 10th, 2009, 06:45 PM	#3
Bob Griffiths Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Carbondale, Colorado Posts: 117	Hi Dan, Here's a link to the FireStore manual on Reference files: http://www.videonics.com/dynassets/d...L-1023-10).pdf . The section on Reference movies is on page 78. Pretty much what I figured on the 64GB cards... such is technology. I'll wait for your OK. As for the metadata, I have no idea what ProxyMill requires but I have sent a note off to a support guy there that I have traded a few emails with. The best deal is to probably connect you guys so you can talk tech. If he agrees, how do you want to get in touch with him? I have his email. Thanks, Bob FireDancer Productions, Inc.

September 14th, 2009, 10:37 AM	#9
Tommy Schell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 65	Here are some newer samples to try out (I'm not sure how the timecode was handled in those other files) : (20 Mbytes each) http://69.15.88.17/downloads/qt_web/...le_50i.MOV.zip http://69.15.88.17/downloads/mxf_web...le_50i.MXF.zip Tommy

September 14th, 2009, 01:32 PM	#11
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I'm with you Bob, sometime you just have to see it work for yourself! Glad it's all sorted. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 14th, 2009, 01:51 PM	#12
Bob Griffiths Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Carbondale, Colorado Posts: 117	The files sizes are working out larger than we hoped because those tiny 40k files are using the AAC encoder for audio... which won't play in real time in FCP without a render. Makes it hard to cut up a file if you constantly have to re-render. The smallest I could get that file to is 304k using mp4 at 15fps and PCM audio. The better audio accounts for the difference... but it plays in real time. You wouldn't know of an audio codec that will play in real time in FCP that will offer higher compression rates, would you? Thanks! __________________ Bob FireDancer Productions, Inc.