.mxf or .mov for widest compatability?

Dan Keaton · July 5th, 2009, 01:24 PM

Dear Bob,

That is a great idea!

Perrone Ford · July 5th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Perrone,

Our File Converter utility is limited in scope.

We convert our Quicktime file to MXF, which can then be imported into Avid, Edius, Sony Vegas, maybe others.

We do not convert Quicktime generated by others.

Dan, I wasn't laying the complaint at your feet. It's just somewhat frustrating that there are so many tools to get to Avid, and no a single one from anyone to leave it.

Dan Keaton · July 5th, 2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

I have found NOTHING that converts Avid's MXF formats to anything else. That is the biggest one-way street I think I have seen yet in video. VERY frustrating.

MXF is a big lie when it comes to the idea of it enabling open exchange between editors and platforms.

Dear Perrone,

If you have the ability to play a timeline, or portion there of, out of your Avid system via HD-SDI, you could use a Flash XDR/nanoFlash to record your timeline to any of the formats we support: Quicktime/MXF, Long GOP/I-Frame Only, at Various bit rates.

If you have a nanoFlash and you can play out an HDMI port, then we can record it also.
(Please note, I have not tested this at this time.)

I wonder if the new Video Cards that support HDMI can output a 1920 x 1080 high quality image via their HDMI output. If so, then, with a nanoFlash, one could easily record the output in any of our formats/modes/bit-rates.

Then, the files that we create can be imported into any NLE that we typically support.

Bob Willis · July 5th, 2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

I have found NOTHING that converts Avid's MXF formats to anything else. That is the biggest one-way street I think I have seen yet in video. VERY frustrating.

MXF is a big lie when it comes to the idea of it enabling open exchange between editors and platforms.

Perrone,
MXF is a format that is used by Sony (XDCAM) and Panasonic (P2) as an aquisition format. Many NLE's (Avid, Adobe Premeire, and Vegas) can now handle and edit the files as native files. MXF is not very efficient as an editing format (and was not developed as such) but, Avid has provided a way to transcode MXF to their DNXHD codec for editing and export.

I am not sure of the exact problems that you are having, but Avid does provide a solution to converting MXF to DNXHD which is an open exchange between different editors. This is not an Avid issue. They did not develop the recording specs, they only support them in their editing platform, as do others.

Bill Ravens · July 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM

In reality, mxf is a universal wrapper, very much like Quicktime of AVI. It's only a box, a package to carry what's on the inside. Avid mxf carries a RAW format video file. One can demux Avid, just like any other mxf. The problem is that you need to be able to read RAW to view it.

Bob Willis · July 5th, 2009, 05:45 PM

If you are using Avid MXF files created in Avid, the you can view them in Avid.

If you are trying to show Avid files to another, such as a client (who does not have Avid), then you can export the files as Quicktimes.

I guess I do not see what the real issue or problem is.

Perrone Ford · July 5th, 2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Willis

If you are using Avid MXF files created in Avid, the you can view them in Avid.

If you are trying to show Avid files to another, such as a client (who does not have Avid), then you can export the files as Quicktimes.

I guess I do not see what the real issue or problem is.

The "problem" as it were, is that I do not own an Avid system. Or this would be trivial. I merely have to work with others who have Avid systems. I have the ability to create Avid MXF files, but I cannot read them, and cannot find a single utility ANYWHERE that allows one to be converted.

Avid's MXF file format is completely different than Sony and Panasonic's. They chose to implement the MXF in a different way than anyone else which ensures their MXF files do not trade with other's. I can't even open the Avid MXF files I create to check them before hand-off.

So the solution is... buy Avid. Easy enough, but just not feasible in this economy and with my government budget right now. With the cuts in my department right now, I was lucky to be able to upgrade my 5 year old editing machine this year. An Avid system just wasn't in the cards.

What's truly surprising is that with the dozens of video converters out there both free and for pay, no one has a converter for Avid MXF. No one.

Dan Keaton · July 5th, 2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Willis

Dan,
Thanks again for following up on these questions. I do understand what a task it is to try to provide formats for so many NLE's out there today. You guys have done a great job of providing compatibility.

I just need to know the workflow options that I will have using Avid. 50 mbps long GOP will work for most of my needs, especially if it includes over and undercrank. The I frame options should work for all my other needs. Sounds like the 100 mbps material might have to be transcoded in Avid before editing. Good to know that it will work.

If you could confirm the information that you provided this next week, it would be greatly appreciated.

Dear Bob,

I have confirmed my information.

Avid works great with our I-Frame Only formats, even at the highest bit-rates, even beyond our 220 Mbps bit-rate.

Avid works with our 100 Mbps Long-GOP, but handles our 50 Mbps Long-GOP better.

Our engineers feel that Avid is reading the entire GOP (Group of Pictures) into their buffer.
At 50 Mbps, the entire GOP fits into their buffer, at 100 Mbps, it does not.
Disclaimer, this is our theory.

But, in any case, one can work, in Avid with our 50 Mbps and 100 Mbps modes.

I welcome Avid users to share their experiences.

Bob Willis · July 5th, 2009, 06:56 PM

Thanks Dan,
Hopefully, I will find time this next week to run some tests.

Bob Willis · July 7th, 2009, 07:41 AM

Hi Dan,
Just a quick note to say that I did download a 1080 23.98p 100 mbps clip from your web site and import it into Avid. The clip played, but I received a buffer error every time that the clip was played. The clip also showed up as a 50 mbps XDCAM clip in the bin information.

At this point, I would say that Avid does not yet fully support the 100 mbps long GOP option. I have not had time to put it through a complete test of editing, effects and output.

Since no current camera shoots 100 mbps long GOP material in the XDCAM HD format, Avid may have the support available, but not yet fully implemented. Maybe they need to be nudged a bit.

Dan Keaton · July 7th, 2009, 09:02 AM

Dear Bob,

We report, in the MXF header, that our 100 Mbps Long GOP footage is 50 Mbps. This allows various NLE's to work with the footage, even though they do not have support for 100 Mbps.

Our 50 Mbps footage works fine in Avid. When we have time, we will add some 50 Mbps footage to our website.

Our 100 Mbps footage will play, but when you stop the footage, or scrub, you will get buffer errors, which can be ignored, but are a nuisance.

Bob, I am sorry, but I had forgotten about these buffer errors in Avid.

James Brill · August 10th, 2009, 02:05 PM

Dan - Will you guys be pushing Avid to support you guys with their new AMA linking feature?

I'm recording in QT and converting to MXF. I just wanted to make sure the best way to get it into Avid is by using the import tool since the AMA linking feature doesn't seem to work at this moment. I didn't expect it to, it's just a little nuisance when Avid has to create 3 more MXF's for audio and video in my Media File folder. Fast import of course since it's basically just separating the MXF so it can be edited it easier.

Dan Keaton · August 10th, 2009, 03:54 PM

Dear James,

You seem to be doing everything right.

Sorry, but it is up to Avid to determine if they want to support us with the AMA linking feature.

I would suggest that you take this up with Avid.

Ron Little · August 24th, 2009, 11:04 AM

Can anyone report on how well the Nano Flash works with Premiere Pro CS3?

Mike Schell · August 24th, 2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Brill

Dan - Will you guys be pushing Avid to support you guys with their new AMA linking feature?

I'm recording in QT and converting to MXF. I just wanted to make sure the best way to get it into Avid is by using the import tool since the AMA linking feature doesn't seem to work at this moment. I didn't expect it to, it's just a little nuisance when Avid has to create 3 more MXF's for audio and video in my Media File folder. Fast import of course since it's basically just separating the MXF so it can be edited it easier.

Hi James-
I can not disclose the details, but we are working with Avid to greatly improve this workflow. Please stay tuned.

Best-

July 5th, 2009, 01:24 PM	#16
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bob, That is a great idea! __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 7th, 2009, 09:02 AM	#26
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Bob, We report, in the MXF header, that our 100 Mbps Long GOP footage is 50 Mbps. This allows various NLE's to work with the footage, even though they do not have support for 100 Mbps. Our 50 Mbps footage works fine in Avid. When we have time, we will add some 50 Mbps footage to our website. Our 100 Mbps footage will play, but when you stop the footage, or scrub, you will get buffer errors, which can be ignored, but are a nuisance. Bob, I am sorry, but I had forgotten about these buffer errors in Avid. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

August 10th, 2009, 03:54 PM	#28
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear James, You seem to be doing everything right. Sorry, but it is up to Avid to determine if they want to support us with the AMA linking feature. I would suggest that you take this up with Avid. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM	#20
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	In reality, mxf is a universal wrapper, very much like Quicktime of AVI. It's only a box, a package to carry what's on the inside. Avid mxf carries a RAW format video file. One can demux Avid, just like any other mxf. The problem is that you need to be able to read RAW to view it.

July 5th, 2009, 05:45 PM	#21
Bob Willis Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 292	If you are using Avid MXF files created in Avid, the you can view them in Avid. If you are trying to show Avid files to another, such as a client (who does not have Avid), then you can export the files as Quicktimes. I guess I do not see what the real issue or problem is.

July 5th, 2009, 06:56 PM	#24
Bob Willis Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 292	Thanks Dan, Hopefully, I will find time this next week to run some tests.

July 7th, 2009, 07:41 AM	#25
Bob Willis Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 292	Hi Dan, Just a quick note to say that I did download a 1080 23.98p 100 mbps clip from your web site and import it into Avid. The clip played, but I received a buffer error every time that the clip was played. The clip also showed up as a 50 mbps XDCAM clip in the bin information. At this point, I would say that Avid does not yet fully support the 100 mbps long GOP option. I have not had time to put it through a complete test of editing, effects and output. Since no current camera shoots 100 mbps long GOP material in the XDCAM HD format, Avid may have the support available, but not yet fully implemented. Maybe they need to be nudged a bit.

August 10th, 2009, 02:05 PM	#27
James Brill Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Goleta, CA Posts: 299	Dan - Will you guys be pushing Avid to support you guys with their new AMA linking feature? I'm recording in QT and converting to MXF. I just wanted to make sure the best way to get it into Avid is by using the import tool since the AMA linking feature doesn't seem to work at this moment. I didn't expect it to, it's just a little nuisance when Avid has to create 3 more MXF's for audio and video in my Media File folder. Fast import of course since it's basically just separating the MXF so it can be edited it easier.

August 24th, 2009, 11:04 AM	#29
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	Can anyone report on how well the Nano Flash works with Premiere Pro CS3?