140 and 160 Mbps Long GOP, 220 Mbps I-Frame Only at DVinfo.net

Dan Keaton · June 30th, 2009, 02:53 PM

Dear Friends,

Today we have released new firmware that significantly enhances the Flash XDR and the upcoming nanoFlash.

We have posted our 1.0.141 firmware release for the Flash XDR on our website www.Convergent-Design.com. This firmware is now available for download.

Features that we add to the Flash XDR, as we have today, will almost always be added to the nanoFlash, provided the hardware supports the new feature.

The nanoFlash will have these features as part of the initial firmware release.

In today's release, we have added 140 Mbps and 160 Mbps Long GOP support.

We previously announced that we were going to release 140 Mbps, but we kept the 160 Mbps a secret.

We still love our 100 Mbps Long GOP mode and this may still be the sweet spot.

However, we wanted to add something extra. Each increase in bit rate provides an extra level of insurance that there can not be too much detail, nor too much motion, either in the image itself, or in camera movement.

Frankly, we feel that 100 Mbps provides this level of insurance for almost all types of shooting. Some may say that these new bit-rates are not needed. They could be right. And 100 Mbps Long GOP creates fairly small file sizes, which mean longer recording times.

We provided the extra bit-rates for our users. We do not want to be the arbiters of what is "good enough". Each user can decide which is best for their applications.

According to our promises, these significant new modes are provided free.

We will continue to enhance the feature set of the Flash XDR and nanoFlash over time. This new firmware will work with all Flash XDR’s; regardless of when they were purchased.

Please be aware that these higher bit-rate modes require faster CompactFlash Cards.

Our recommended Kingston 32 GB 133x Elite Pro card supports all modes up to an including 140 Mbps.

Also, as previously announced, our new release offers 100/140/160 and 220 Mbps I-Frame Only (Intra-Frame) options.

Frankly, we do not know which option is best for each user.

Please note the following:

1. As the bit rates go up, so do the file sizes. Just use what is good enough; or good enough and then some.

2. Sony Vegas at this time does not work with our I-Frame Only.

3. Avid works better with I-Frame Only than it does with Long-GOP.
Avid works great with 50 Mbps Long-GOP, but not as great with the higher bit rates.

4. If you are going for film out, and are prepared to work with larger file size, then choose 160 Mbps Long GOP or 220 Mbps I-Frame Only, if you like.

The same applies if you are shooting high-end work; it is your choice.

Teaser: Be prepared for even more announcements.

Perrone Ford · June 30th, 2009, 03:01 PM

I could not purchase one of these on this years budget, but let me say that you guys are absolutely kicking AS* right now! You are pulling off what others have talked about but have failed to deliver.

Kudos to you and if I can EVER get the budget to get one of these boxes, it will be right at the top of my list.

Do you have a chart produced of recording times at the different bit rates with 16/32GB cards?

John Quick · June 30th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Our recommended Kingston 32 GB 133x Elite Pro card supports all modes up to an including 140 Mbps.

Hey, Dan:

Which cards are you recomending for the 160Mbps Long GOP files?

John

Dan Keaton · June 30th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Dear Perrone,

Thanks for the kind words. Your support is greatly appreciated.

As a side note:

What I like about our Flash XDR and nanoFlash more than anything else, is that with the right mode, such as 4:2:2 100 Mbps Long GOP, no one seems to be able to tell a live feed, versus playback, even on a $15,000 monitor.

We get experts that evaluate the Flash XDR:

Most comment that "The images are really clean", some say "Even the blue channel is clean".

I just copied this out of our latest manual.

-----------Compact Flash Record Capacity (Minutes)
---------------- 50 Mbps ------100 Mbps -------160 Mbps
One 16 GB Card.... 36 .............. 18 .................. 12
One 32 GB Card.... 71 .............. 36 .................. 24
Four 32 GB Cards. 284 ............ 144 .................. 96

We are going to have to run some tests for 140 and 220 Mbps modes

Use only the qualified Compact Flash cards for the specified bit rates:
a. Kingston 133x 32 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 140 Mbps
Mfr # CF/32GB-S2
b. SanDisk Extreme 3 32 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 160 Mbps
c. SanDisk Extreme 4 16/32 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 220 Mbps
d. Delkin UDMA 16 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 220 Mbps
e. Lexar 8 Gbyte 300x CF cards for bit rates up to and including 220 Mbps

Steve Phillipps · June 30th, 2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

you guys are absolutely kicking AS* right now! You are pulling off what others have talked about but have failed to deliver.

Agreed! Keep it up guys.
Just a thought - thinking about your overcranking, for those with a 50i camera, would it be possible to do a de-interlace in the unit to make it into 50P? This I believe is how the Sony F355 and F800 do it (only my assumption though). Take each field and double it - with as good interpolation as you can manage in the software. This would be great for XL-H1 owners for example who at present have no slomo option, and 1080 with split fields (ie 1920 x 540) is more or less the same pixels as 1280 x 720 which is the other slomo option for those that have it.
Steve

Perrone Ford · June 30th, 2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Agreed! Keep it up guys.
Just a thought - thinking about your overcranking, for those with a 50i camera, would it be possible to do a de-interlace in the unit to make it into 50P? This I believe is how the Sony F355 and F800 do it (only my assumption though). Take each field and double it - with as good interpolation as you can manage in the software. This would be great for XL-H1 owners for example who at present have no slomo option, and 1080 with split fields (ie 1920 x 540) is more or less the same pixels as 1280 x 720 which is the other slomo option for those that have it.
Steve

Steve, Wouldn't you really prefer to do this in post? Maybe with a Lanczos or cubic spline transform than in the data recorder? I think I get where you're going, but I'd rather have data manipulation done in either the camera or in post. I just want my recorder, recording what I've asked it to. Too many opportunities for things to go wrong.

Mike Schell · June 30th, 2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Agreed! Keep it up guys.
Just a thought - thinking about your overcranking, for those with a 50i camera, would it be possible to do a de-interlace in the unit to make it into 50P? This I believe is how the Sony F355 and F800 do it (only my assumption though). Take each field and double it - with as good interpolation as you can manage in the software. This would be great for XL-H1 owners for example who at present have no slomo option, and 1080 with split fields (ie 1920 x 540) is more or less the same pixels as 1280 x 720 which is the other slomo option for those that have it.
Steve

Hi Steve-
Great idea, but definitely outside the capabilities of the nano or XDR. Our boxes don't have a lot of extra logic for video processing, which of course allows us to keep the power (and price) low.

Best-

Dean Harrington · June 30th, 2009, 04:54 PM

Love the surprises ! Keep them coming! It's like Xmas! Can't wait to get my grubby little hands on a unit !

Dan Keaton · June 30th, 2009, 05:11 PM

Dear Steve,

As much as we would like to implement your suggestion, there is a finite amount in code that we can put into the nanoFlash before we run out.

So we are attempting to be very careful in what we implement.

Dan Keaton · June 30th, 2009, 05:26 PM

Sorry, I meant to post this in a new thread.

Steve Phillipps · July 1st, 2009, 02:31 AM

Dan and Mike,
Fair enough, I thought it might require too much software in the box, and it's not a feature I would ever need, really thinking of XL-H1 guys and gals.
Perrone, yes of course that's an option (and maybe the best one) but it's also nice to be able to do it in camera and not have to go through extra work in post.
Steve

Ramji Meena · July 3rd, 2009, 04:09 AM

when is the nano-flash comming the wait has been so long.one briton told me that these americans are very clever they sell product before it arrives in the market.He was also telling me that the flash XDR was having lot of problems now it is a very godd product.The same way it is possible the nano may come with many problem.Any comment Kiton?

Steve Phillipps · July 3rd, 2009, 04:21 AM

Ramji,
Last I heard, delivery to the UK was supposed to be end of July for those that pre-ordered, no word that it has been delayed.
As for problems, AFAIK the Nano has mostly the same hardware and software as the XDR so if the XDR is running smoothly the Nano should be too.
Steve

Dan Keaton · July 3rd, 2009, 04:58 AM

Dear Ramji,

When: The initial, limited quantities of the nanoFlash are scheduled to be shipped around July 15, 12 days from now. Volume shipments are scheduled to be shipped before the end of July.

Status: In four hours, we should have in our lab, the first production main circuit boards.

When manufacturing a large quantity of circuit boards, it is prudent to build a few, then test the board to ensure that all of the parts in the correct places and the parts are inserted correct. Otherwise one could build a lot of parts that have a part inserted incorrectly.

Another circuit board will be built and tested early next week.

Then, our large, high volume contract manufacturer will be building our circuit boards in volume quantities.

Within 30 days, we expect all of our pre-orders to have been shipped.

Clever: Maybe, maybe not. One of the reasons we have been taking orders is to determine how many we should build. It is very difficult, in these tough economic times, to determine how many to build.

Very Good: The nanoFlash builds upon the Flash XDR.

What is not widely reported, is that the Flash XDR is being used successfully by many productions. I get many people that trade shows, such as Cine Gear Expo and NAB, that come up and say that they are using the Flash XDR, that it works great, and they just love the image quality it produces.

A 13 week dramatic series in New Zealand used two Flash XDR's with EX3's. Their post house said that their "Keys" (green screen work), were the cleanest they had ever seen, from any camera, in the history of their post house! (They did at least some of the post work on Lord of the Rings.)

The Flash XDR is currently being used with a Thomson Viper for a major US commercial being shot in an exotic location.

Cash Cab in Toronto has been using 8 Flash XDR's for weeks now. At one time they went over a bump so hard that the micophones fell from their mountings, but all 8 Flash XDR's continued to record without a single glitch.

An eposide of Mighty Ship was recorded with the Flash XDR recording, unattended, in the hold of a diamond mining ship. The producers said that the only way they could have gotten the shot was with the Flash XDR.

The conditions were brutal, no human was allowed in the deep hold of the ship when the ship was mining. The Flash XDR, however, was there recording the images. As I understand it, every four hours, they would stop mining, then go down and change the battery, retreive the CompactFlash cards, insert new ones, then restart recording and then leave.

A film teaser was shot with EX1's and Varicams, in tough conditions, and tough lighting conditions. The producer, the director, and other very experienced crew members where just amazed at the detail they were seening on playback. I met one of the crew members recently in Washington, DC, and he was telling everyone just how great the Flash XDR is.

The Flash XDR is being used in every eposide, for in-vehicle shots, for a weekly dramatic series on network television.

A film in Iceland, with a Thomson Viper and two Flash XDR's is currently in production. This is for film out. And this is after the Flash XDR was thoroughly tested for image quality.

My point is that the Flash XDR, is out there, working, obtaining great images, on a daily basis. It is being used as a tool to obtain very high quality images, just as intended.

Shortly, the nanoFlash will be doing the same. Currently, the nanoFlash is on location in South Africa. It has been down to the sister ship of the Titanic for National Geographic, over 100 meters deep. It has flown in a F22 Raptor.

Justin Benn · July 3rd, 2009, 05:37 AM

Just wanted to add my voice to the clarion of thanks and appreciation that you guys deserve. Using the XDR is a significant boon for my (bread and butter) business and clients are genuinely impressed with the image quality from an EX3 HD-SDI out. Having these extra formats is just what I wanted from my XDR and I'm glad I jumped on board last year.

You will make my Xmas if you manged to get uncompressed 10 bit on the XDR before the year is out!

Jus.

June 30th, 2009, 02:53 PM	#1
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	140 and 160 Mbps Long GOP, 220 Mbps I-Frame Only Dear Friends, Today we have released new firmware that significantly enhances the Flash XDR and the upcoming nanoFlash. We have posted our 1.0.141 firmware release for the Flash XDR on our website www.Convergent-Design.com. This firmware is now available for download. Features that we add to the Flash XDR, as we have today, will almost always be added to the nanoFlash, provided the hardware supports the new feature. The nanoFlash will have these features as part of the initial firmware release. In today's release, we have added 140 Mbps and 160 Mbps Long GOP support. We previously announced that we were going to release 140 Mbps, but we kept the 160 Mbps a secret. We still love our 100 Mbps Long GOP mode and this may still be the sweet spot. However, we wanted to add something extra. Each increase in bit rate provides an extra level of insurance that there can not be too much detail, nor too much motion, either in the image itself, or in camera movement. Frankly, we feel that 100 Mbps provides this level of insurance for almost all types of shooting. Some may say that these new bit-rates are not needed. They could be right. And 100 Mbps Long GOP creates fairly small file sizes, which mean longer recording times. We provided the extra bit-rates for our users. We do not want to be the arbiters of what is "good enough". Each user can decide which is best for their applications. According to our promises, these significant new modes are provided free. We will continue to enhance the feature set of the Flash XDR and nanoFlash over time. This new firmware will work with all Flash XDR’s; regardless of when they were purchased. Please be aware that these higher bit-rate modes require faster CompactFlash Cards. Our recommended Kingston 32 GB 133x Elite Pro card supports all modes up to an including 140 Mbps. Also, as previously announced, our new release offers 100/140/160 and 220 Mbps I-Frame Only (Intra-Frame) options. Frankly, we do not know which option is best for each user. Please note the following: 1. As the bit rates go up, so do the file sizes. Just use what is good enough; or good enough and then some. 2. Sony Vegas at this time does not work with our I-Frame Only. 3. Avid works better with I-Frame Only than it does with Long-GOP. Avid works great with 50 Mbps Long-GOP, but not as great with the higher bit rates. 4. If you are going for film out, and are prepared to work with larger file size, then choose 160 Mbps Long GOP or 220 Mbps I-Frame Only, if you like. The same applies if you are shooting high-end work; it is your choice. Teaser: Be prepared for even more announcements. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 30th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#2
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I could not purchase one of these on this years budget, but let me say that you guys are absolutely kicking AS* right now! You are pulling off what others have talked about but have failed to deliver. Kudos to you and if I can EVER get the budget to get one of these boxes, it will be right at the top of my list. Do you have a chart produced of recording times at the different bit rates with 16/32GB cards? __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

June 30th, 2009, 03:23 PM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Perrone, Thanks for the kind words. Your support is greatly appreciated. As a side note: What I like about our Flash XDR and nanoFlash more than anything else, is that with the right mode, such as 4:2:2 100 Mbps Long GOP, no one seems to be able to tell a live feed, versus playback, even on a $15,000 monitor. We get experts that evaluate the Flash XDR: Most comment that "The images are really clean", some say "Even the blue channel is clean". I just copied this out of our latest manual. -----------Compact Flash Record Capacity (Minutes) ---------------- 50 Mbps ------100 Mbps -------160 Mbps One 16 GB Card.... 36 .............. 18 .................. 12 One 32 GB Card.... 71 .............. 36 .................. 24 Four 32 GB Cards. 284 ............ 144 .................. 96 We are going to have to run some tests for 140 and 220 Mbps modes Use only the qualified Compact Flash cards for the specified bit rates: a. Kingston 133x 32 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 140 Mbps Mfr # CF/32GB-S2 b. SanDisk Extreme 3 32 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 160 Mbps c. SanDisk Extreme 4 16/32 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 220 Mbps d. Delkin UDMA 16 Gbyte CF cards for bit rates up to and including 220 Mbps e. Lexar 8 Gbyte 300x CF cards for bit rates up to and including 220 Mbps __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 30th, 2009, 04:54 PM	#8
Dean Harrington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 898	Mike ... Love the surprises ! Keep them coming! It's like Xmas! Can't wait to get my grubby little hands on a unit !

June 30th, 2009, 05:11 PM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Steve, As much as we would like to implement your suggestion, there is a finite amount in code that we can put into the nanoFlash before we run out. So we are attempting to be very careful in what we implement. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 30th, 2009, 05:26 PM	#10
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	New Feature - Pre-Record Buffer Sorry, I meant to post this in a new thread. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 1st, 2009, 02:31 AM	#11
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Dan and Mike, Fair enough, I thought it might require too much software in the box, and it's not a feature I would ever need, really thinking of XL-H1 guys and gals. Perrone, yes of course that's an option (and maybe the best one) but it's also nice to be able to do it in camera and not have to go through extra work in post. Steve

July 3rd, 2009, 04:09 AM	#12
Ramji Meena Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MUMBAI INDIA Posts: 109	but when that thing will happen when is the nano-flash comming the wait has been so long.one briton told me that these americans are very clever they sell product before it arrives in the market.He was also telling me that the flash XDR was having lot of problems now it is a very godd product.The same way it is possible the nano may come with many problem.Any comment Kiton?

July 3rd, 2009, 04:21 AM	#13
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Ramji, Last I heard, delivery to the UK was supposed to be end of July for those that pre-ordered, no word that it has been delayed. As for problems, AFAIK the Nano has mostly the same hardware and software as the XDR so if the XDR is running smoothly the Nano should be too. Steve

July 3rd, 2009, 04:58 AM	#14
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Ramji, When: The initial, limited quantities of the nanoFlash are scheduled to be shipped around July 15, 12 days from now. Volume shipments are scheduled to be shipped before the end of July. Status: In four hours, we should have in our lab, the first production main circuit boards. When manufacturing a large quantity of circuit boards, it is prudent to build a few, then test the board to ensure that all of the parts in the correct places and the parts are inserted correct. Otherwise one could build a lot of parts that have a part inserted incorrectly. Another circuit board will be built and tested early next week. Then, our large, high volume contract manufacturer will be building our circuit boards in volume quantities. Within 30 days, we expect all of our pre-orders to have been shipped. Clever: Maybe, maybe not. One of the reasons we have been taking orders is to determine how many we should build. It is very difficult, in these tough economic times, to determine how many to build. Very Good: The nanoFlash builds upon the Flash XDR. What is not widely reported, is that the Flash XDR is being used successfully by many productions. I get many people that trade shows, such as Cine Gear Expo and NAB, that come up and say that they are using the Flash XDR, that it works great, and they just love the image quality it produces. A 13 week dramatic series in New Zealand used two Flash XDR's with EX3's. Their post house said that their "Keys" (green screen work), were the cleanest they had ever seen, from any camera, in the history of their post house! (They did at least some of the post work on Lord of the Rings.) The Flash XDR is currently being used with a Thomson Viper for a major US commercial being shot in an exotic location. Cash Cab in Toronto has been using 8 Flash XDR's for weeks now. At one time they went over a bump so hard that the micophones fell from their mountings, but all 8 Flash XDR's continued to record without a single glitch. An eposide of Mighty Ship was recorded with the Flash XDR recording, unattended, in the hold of a diamond mining ship. The producers said that the only way they could have gotten the shot was with the Flash XDR. The conditions were brutal, no human was allowed in the deep hold of the ship when the ship was mining. The Flash XDR, however, was there recording the images. As I understand it, every four hours, they would stop mining, then go down and change the battery, retreive the CompactFlash cards, insert new ones, then restart recording and then leave. A film teaser was shot with EX1's and Varicams, in tough conditions, and tough lighting conditions. The producer, the director, and other very experienced crew members where just amazed at the detail they were seening on playback. I met one of the crew members recently in Washington, DC, and he was telling everyone just how great the Flash XDR is. The Flash XDR is being used in every eposide, for in-vehicle shots, for a weekly dramatic series on network television. A film in Iceland, with a Thomson Viper and two Flash XDR's is currently in production. This is for film out. And this is after the Flash XDR was thoroughly tested for image quality. My point is that the Flash XDR, is out there, working, obtaining great images, on a daily basis. It is being used as a tool to obtain very high quality images, just as intended. Shortly, the nanoFlash will be doing the same. Currently, the nanoFlash is on location in South Africa. It has been down to the sister ship of the Titanic for National Geographic, over 100 meters deep. It has flown in a F22 Raptor. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

July 3rd, 2009, 05:37 AM	#15
Justin Benn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: York, UK. Posts: 224	Gratitude. Just wanted to add my voice to the clarion of thanks and appreciation that you guys deserve. Using the XDR is a significant boon for my (bread and butter) business and clients are genuinely impressed with the image quality from an EX3 HD-SDI out. Having these extra formats is just what I wanted from my XDR and I'm glad I jumped on board last year. You will make my Xmas if you manged to get uncompressed 10 bit on the XDR before the year is out! Jus. Last edited by Justin Benn; July 3rd, 2009 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Grammar.