Nano Flash and Canon HF S100

Henry Olonga · May 24th, 2009, 10:37 AM

Hi Dan,
Possible to test this with a Canon HFS10 soon?My intensity works with every other camera I have tried except this one.Could you be kind enough to perhaps borrow one and test.This will determine my long standing interest in nanoflash.Much appreciated.

Dan Keaton · May 24th, 2009, 12:36 PM

Dear Henry,

I have sent an email to our contact at Canon for information on this subject.

If we find a Vixia HF S10 to borrow, we will test it as soon as possible.

Please let us know if you have any success in using the Vixia HF S10 with various monitors or other devices.

During your testing of the HDMI output, was it with a live image, or during playback?

Henry Olonga · May 24th, 2009, 04:43 PM

Hi Dan,
Thanks for the reply.Anything but plugging the camcorder directly into the Sony Bravia LCD fails.It won't talk to the intensity or the HDMI switch or the HDMI splitter I bought.Just directly to the LCD and that's it.
On the camera one has the choice of frame rate.60i,30por 24p.I have it set to 24p.I know that all frame rates are sent in a 60i stream and I have also tried the other settings.
The LCD recognises the input as interlaced.
The Canon fails to connect in both live mode and also playback.
Of interest is that the composite HD menu item and the HDMI control item in the settings flicker when it has failed to do the handshake.So the camera obviously knows something is not on.The HDMI status tab shows this _ _ _ _ _ when it fails to connect and 1920 X 1080 when successfully connected to the LCD.
All help much appreciated.
Henry

Dan Keaton · May 24th, 2009, 05:13 PM

Dear Henry,

I just read the instruction manual searching for clues to the problem.

I did not find any.

I will be researching this further.

For your initial testing, I would use 1080i60 mode. Then, if we get this working, swicth to another mode.

John Quick · May 25th, 2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

To be specific, you can record the output of the Canon cameras with the Flash XDR or nanoFlash.

Do you know whether the Sony Z7 includes DRM in its HDMI output?

Dan Keaton · May 25th, 2009, 06:24 AM

Dear John,

As far as I know, DRM (Digital Rights Management), which is really HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), via the "Broadcast Flag" is almost never applied to the original source as created by a consumer or professional camera.

In other words, DRM should not be a problem when using consumer or professional camera.

In a different light, I can not see any reason why DRM would be invoked on any camera.

For example, many professional HD monitors do not include HDCP. Thus any HDCP protected content could not be viewed on these professional monitors.

Dan Keaton · May 26th, 2009, 02:22 PM

Dear Friends,

All Canon camcorders - in camera mode - output uncompressed (right off the Digic DSP, before any compression). Some like the XL H1S use HD-SDI, some like the HF S10, use HDMI.

In all Canon camcorders, there is a menu item or button that removes the overlay.

In the HF S10 it is a button under the LCD panel (body of camcorder) that is labeled <DISP/BATT. INFO>. Keep pressing that and the overlay will disappear.

Based on my research, there is no DRM on the HDMI output. The Canon HF S10 has been used succesfully with the AJA Kona card on a Mac to record video directly to FCP.

We are in the process of obtaining a Canon HF S10 for more tests.

Henry Olonga · May 26th, 2009, 02:43 PM

Thanks Dan.So someone has successfully captured from the HDMI port?If that is the case I wonder what the Jeeves is going on with mine.
Do keep us posted.
Henry

Dan Keaton · May 26th, 2009, 02:47 PM

Dear Henry,

We expect to have a Canon HF S10 by the end of this week, or early next week.

At that time, we hope to be in a position to test this.

We will report our results.

John Quick · May 27th, 2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

We expect to have a Canon HF S10 by the end of this week, or early next week.

At that time, we hope to be in a position to test this.

Hey, Dan:

If you can borrow a Sony Z7, it would be good to have confirmation that there are no issues recording from the HDMI output of that camera.

John

Dan Keaton · May 27th, 2009, 04:27 PM

Dear John,

Sorry, but, I do not have easy access to a Sony Z7 right now.

We borrowed the Canon HF S10 directly from Canon since there was one user that was having problems with the HDMI output working with only certain monotors.

We will be testing the nanoFlash will a large number of cameras as soon as possible.

I may be able to test the nanoFlash with the Sony Z7 at Cine Gear Expo, in Hollywood, next week.

John Quick · May 27th, 2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear John,

I may be able to test the nanoFlash with the Sony Z7 at Cine Gear Expo, in Hollywood, next week.

Thanks, Dan.

Henry Olonga · May 28th, 2009, 04:40 PM

Thanks for going to trouble to test this guys.Appreciated.
Henry

Dan Keaton · May 29th, 2009, 07:34 PM

Dear Henry,

We now have the Canon HF S10 in house.

We were tied up working on the nanoFlash, but we will get to it as soon as possible.

We have ordered some HDMI to HDMI cables earlier this week, but I do not know if we need a new one to test the HF S10. In any case, our cables should be in shortly.

Dan Keaton · June 2nd, 2009, 07:23 PM

Dear Friends,

We have tested the Canon HF S10 with the nanoFlash.

We found it to work fine.

We did not find any evidence of DRM or HDCP copy protection.

This confirms the information that Canon provided to us.

May 24th, 2009, 10:37 AM	#16
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Hi Dan, Possible to test this with a Canon HFS10 soon?My intensity works with every other camera I have tried except this one.Could you be kind enough to perhaps borrow one and test.This will determine my long standing interest in nanoflash.Much appreciated. __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

May 24th, 2009, 12:36 PM	#17
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Henry, I have sent an email to our contact at Canon for information on this subject. If we find a Vixia HF S10 to borrow, we will test it as soon as possible. Please let us know if you have any success in using the Vixia HF S10 with various monitors or other devices. During your testing of the HDMI output, was it with a live image, or during playback? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 24th, 2009, 04:43 PM	#18
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Hi Dan, Thanks for the reply.Anything but plugging the camcorder directly into the Sony Bravia LCD fails.It won't talk to the intensity or the HDMI switch or the HDMI splitter I bought.Just directly to the LCD and that's it. On the camera one has the choice of frame rate.60i,30por 24p.I have it set to 24p.I know that all frame rates are sent in a 60i stream and I have also tried the other settings. The LCD recognises the input as interlaced. The Canon fails to connect in both live mode and also playback. Of interest is that the composite HD menu item and the HDMI control item in the settings flicker when it has failed to do the handshake.So the camera obviously knows something is not on.The HDMI status tab shows this _ _ _ _ _ when it fails to connect and 1920 X 1080 when successfully connected to the LCD. All help much appreciated. Henry __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

May 24th, 2009, 05:13 PM	#19
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Henry, I just read the instruction manual searching for clues to the problem. I did not find any. I will be researching this further. For your initial testing, I would use 1080i60 mode. Then, if we get this working, swicth to another mode. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 25th, 2009, 06:24 AM	#21
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear John, As far as I know, DRM (Digital Rights Management), which is really HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), via the "Broadcast Flag" is almost never applied to the original source as created by a consumer or professional camera. In other words, DRM should not be a problem when using consumer or professional camera. In a different light, I can not see any reason why DRM would be invoked on any camera. For example, many professional HD monitors do not include HDCP. Thus any HDCP protected content could not be viewed on these professional monitors. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 26th, 2009, 02:22 PM	#22
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, All Canon camcorders - in camera mode - output uncompressed (right off the Digic DSP, before any compression). Some like the XL H1S use HD-SDI, some like the HF S10, use HDMI. In all Canon camcorders, there is a menu item or button that removes the overlay. In the HF S10 it is a button under the LCD panel (body of camcorder) that is labeled <DISP/BATT. INFO>. Keep pressing that and the overlay will disappear. Based on my research, there is no DRM on the HDMI output. The Canon HF S10 has been used succesfully with the AJA Kona card on a Mac to record video directly to FCP. We are in the process of obtaining a Canon HF S10 for more tests. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 26th, 2009, 02:43 PM	#23
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Mystery Thanks Dan.So someone has successfully captured from the HDMI port?If that is the case I wonder what the Jeeves is going on with mine. Do keep us posted. Henry __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

May 26th, 2009, 02:47 PM	#24
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Henry, We expect to have a Canon HF S10 by the end of this week, or early next week. At that time, we hope to be in a position to test this. We will report our results. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 27th, 2009, 04:27 PM	#26
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear John, Sorry, but, I do not have easy access to a Sony Z7 right now. We borrowed the Canon HF S10 directly from Canon since there was one user that was having problems with the HDMI output working with only certain monotors. We will be testing the nanoFlash will a large number of cameras as soon as possible. I may be able to test the nanoFlash with the Sony Z7 at Cine Gear Expo, in Hollywood, next week. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 28th, 2009, 04:40 PM	#28
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Thanks for going to trouble to test this guys.Appreciated. Henry __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

May 29th, 2009, 07:34 PM	#29
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Henry, We now have the Canon HF S10 in house. We were tied up working on the nanoFlash, but we will get to it as soon as possible. We have ordered some HDMI to HDMI cables earlier this week, but I do not know if we need a new one to test the HF S10. In any case, our cables should be in shortly. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 2nd, 2009, 07:23 PM	#30
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Friends, We have tested the Canon HF S10 with the nanoFlash. We found it to work fine. We did not find any evidence of DRM or HDCP copy protection. This confirms the information that Canon provided to us. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia