Xdr + jvc gy hd 250/1? at DVinfo.net

Eugen Oprina · February 6th, 2009, 11:33 AM

Hello,
I don't want to cross post but on the JVC forum I haven't got any answer, so here I am.
Is there anybody who ever tried, as a test at least , the Flash XDR wit the JVC GY HD 250/1 camera?
If yes , was it OK? Is there a decent way of attaching XDR to the camera. How is the quality of the recorded material?
Thanks for the answers,
Eugen

Adam Letch · February 8th, 2009, 01:19 AM

if there is by chance a XDR user with a JVC, it'd be fantastic to see high motion footage in both 720 25p and 720 50p, and also low light footage to see how this great device improves the image with less image breakup, and mosquito noise! Perhaps using a 3db and 6db gain for example.
If not, maybe a xhl1 user or something similar that uses the hdv codec, even though the JVC is noisier, it's at least under the 25mpbs mark.

Regards

Adam

Bill Ravens · February 8th, 2009, 07:37 AM

I don't have an HD250, however, I do have an HD110. My preliminary tests of underexposed images with this cam and the XDR does show somewhat improved low light performance. Unfortunately, I don't shoot PAL, since I'm in the USA. Raising exposure level , in post, results in an improved "grain" structure, more even and smaller grain size. Image quality, otherwise, looks identical to native m2t data captures with an FS4HD. I should note that the component out ports of my HD100 were routed thru a BMD HD-SDI converter prior to input to the XDR.

In my opinion, the Flash XDR is much too large to attach directly to my camera. I know it comes with a tripod socket on the back side, but, I would never use it on-camera. I have a nylon strap woven thru the carry handle for over the shoulder wearability.

The nano-flash should be much smaller and camera mountable. I'm waiting for the nano-flash to be put into production.

Eugen Oprina · February 8th, 2009, 05:48 PM

Thank you very much Bill.
Unfortunately there are two significant diferences (at least I think that they are significant) .
One is that on our 251 cameras the signal is processed on 14 bits (as far as I remember) compared to 12 on 110 ( which by the way doesn't make the 250 less grainy) and the BMD converter that you are using which may add it's own 'flavour' to the process.
Thanks again for the answer and let's hope that Dan Keaton finds a JVC 250 for testing with their baby in order to encourage us, the JVC owners, to buy their products.
All the best,
Eugen

Dan Keaton · February 8th, 2009, 08:57 PM

Dear Eugen,

I have been trying to remember who has tested the Flash XDR with a 250 or 251.

I know the Flash XDR has been tested with the 250 or 251, I hope to find out soon.

Adam Letch · February 9th, 2009, 07:35 AM

I was thinking today, what would be the sacrifice I have to make, better lens or XDR, well as soon as a few wrinkles are taken out, I would have to say xdr, Douglas Scott you've definitely had a bad run but like the other users out there, thankyou for your input into the xdr's development.
But it would do ones heart well to see the results speak for themselves( re the HD251), Bill how big is it say in comparison to the DRDH100, I must admit that the nano is looking a better option for field work, but one must admit the ability to have the two extra cf ports, and 2 more channels of 24bit audio is a hard one to miss up on.

Bill Ravens · February 9th, 2009, 08:00 AM

Adam...

I have several FS4HD units I use, camera mounted. The XDR is on the order of twice the size. But, size isn't my concern, altho', it is very bulky. The XDR is fairly heavy, much too heavy for relying on a shoe mount, or any camera mount. Any add on bracketry would need to be substantially mounted to the camera frame. It will, most definitely, shift the CG aft of the camera, making tripod balance very difficult. Adding this to your camera will increase the total weight requirements of your tripod system.

Adam Letch · February 9th, 2009, 08:14 AM

I always invisioned a proper vmount bracket for this baby, like I use with my DRDH100, throwing the weight to the rear, Dan are you guys going to develop something along this line, or is there a 3rd party vendor you can refer to, to pick it up?

eg:
Provisual Online

this was a God send for me, changed the whole balance of the camera for the better, and made more sense, including built in Dtap etc, which the xdrs sound like they need a good battery solution for the field?

Eugen Oprina · February 9th, 2009, 12:49 PM

Thank you Dan,
Any info about this combination (XDR + JVC 250) is welcome.
Eugen

Douglas Scott · February 9th, 2009, 02:11 PM

I'm using an Israeli Arm to mount the XDR to my HDX900 camera handle and power it with an IDX L7 Lithium battery. The unit sits at the back of the camera, is balanced OK and is near the HD-SDI output. You do have to move the camera to view the XDR vital signs when doing handheld work. With the camera on a tripod, it's easy enough to view the stats.

My battery did go down on Saturday and I lost a couple shots. I might go to a larger battery and run both camera and XDR off of it. At least, I'll get some low battery warning that way.

There is a power splitter that gives you 4 power taps instead of one from an Anton Bauer power tap. This is handy to run other accessories.

Cheers,
Scott

Dan Keaton · February 12th, 2009, 07:57 AM

Dear Adam,

The Flash XDR back plate has four mounting holes to allow the mounting of a V-Lock adapter from IDX, IDX Powering Hi-Def.

Certain IDX batteries have a V-Lock mount on the back of the battery, so another V-Lock device can mount to it.

Douglas Scott · February 12th, 2009, 09:28 AM

Dan:

If you mount a V lock or other type battery to the XDR, how do you mount the combined unit to the camera?

Scott

Dan Keaton · February 12th, 2009, 10:33 AM

Dear Scott,

IDX makes batteries that have a standard V-Lock (I will call it a male V-Mount).

The standard V-Lock plate on a camera is female.

On the back of some of IDX batteries is a second V-Lock (and it is female).

IDX sells an adapter plate which is male (the same type as on most of their batteries).
The Flash XDR was designed with this adpater plate in mind.

With the adapter plate attached to the back of the Flash XDR, the unit can be mounted to any IDX battery that has the female V-Lock on the back.

We offer D-Tap to 4-Pin XLR power cables. We can custom build them for any length.

I just had a discussion with IDX, as soon as I have more info, I will provide it.

Adam Letch · February 14th, 2009, 12:47 AM

Hey Dan,
appreciate you guys are always working hard on solutions, and really I don't know where the 'responsibility' lies with producing something like a xdr in the sense of mounting options, I know it would be logical for 3rd party vendors to create mounting solutions for known products.
This IDX solution sounds interesting, but this would therefore be only a solution for people who use IDX batteries, I use GlobalmediaPro batteries for example, which cost half as much as the equivelant IDX counterpart, and no such mounting option is available, thus the reasoning for a good mounting bracket or similar to the product I linked above.

Israeli arms are a solution for a great many things, and confess to not having used one personally yet, but would think it'd make a shoulder mounted solution unweildy with XDR hanging off. The DRDH100 for example came with it's own craddle at least so worst case scenario you could mount it to the cold shoe of the camera. The bracket link I gave actually incorporates this into the product. Just some thoughts to help make a good product as transportable as it should and needs to be, or really would this be more considered in the realm of the nano, and we should maybe look at the XDR as either a studio device, or maybe like a form to tethered field recording like one might do with a laptop or other SDI style recording device?

Dan Keaton · February 14th, 2009, 03:59 AM

Dear Adam,

We are building a variety of mounts for the Flash XDR.

All of the followng mounts are made of powder-coated aluminum.

Each has a provision for attaching a Baby Pin so they may be easily attached to any grip equipment, if desired.

Each has a 1/4" x 20 (tripod screw) threaded hole for attaching to a tripod.

Each has appropriate screw holes to attach an Anton Bauer Universal Gold Mount Plate which comes with a 4-Pin XLR power connector that mates to the Flash XDR. We provide this Gold Mount Plate as an option for each of the following.

1. A mount for Zacuto Rails or any other 15 mm rails. This mount has two 15 mm holes, at a slight angle so that it is easy to use the Flash XDR.

2. A mount that allows the Flash XDR to be attached to an Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate.

This allows the Flash XDR to be attached to any camera that has a Gold Mount Plate.
If mounting the Flash XDR with this mount, then the camera will need to be powered via another means, since this assembly attaches where the battery would be normally.

(Our next set of plates solves this problem).

3. A mount that allows the Flash XDR to be attached to an Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate. This version includes three plates. They form a U when assembled.

Two of the plates are indentical. They have provisions for mounting the supplied Anton Bauer Gold Mount Studs (3) in two positions. One is higher up on the plate than the other to allow the Flash XDR to be mounted in a High or Low position.

These plates also have provisions for attaching a Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate in three positions. This allows the Anton Bauer pro batteries to be attached. The three positions allow the camera to be balanced horizontally by shifting the battery left, center or right.

Also, these plates have three sets of mounting holes for the Flash XDR, so that it can be mounted in three different positions, High, Normal, and Low.

The third plate in this set is called the bridge plate. It holds the two main plates together and it allows for the attachment of wireless receivers or other gear. This bridge plate currently comes in two sizes, one for the Hytron 50/Dionic 90 size batteries and another for the largest of brick batteries.

I am currently waiting for these plates to come back from powder coating. I will post pictures as soon as possible.

The system attaches like this:

Camera
Camera Mounted Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate (original plate on the camera)
Main Plate with three Anton Bauer Gold Mount Studs (buttons) attached to the above.
Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate
Anton Bauer pro battery (user supplied or we can supply it)

Attached to the side of the above Main Plate is the bridge plate.

Another Main Plate
Flash XDR

The Anton Bauer Hubz system can also be used to mount the Flash XDR.

For some, the Anton Bauer Elipz battery system is ideal for powering the Flash XDR for more than four hours. This attaches directly to the back of the Flash XDR, or can be attached between a tripod and the camera. We make a special Anton Bauer Elipz battery to 4-Pin XLR cable for this purpose.

We also make a D-Tap to 4-Pin XLR cable and a Hirose 4-Pin to 4-Pin XLR power cable.

February 6th, 2009, 11:33 AM	#1
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	Xdr + jvc gy hd 250/1? Hello, I don't want to cross post but on the JVC forum I haven't got any answer, so here I am. Is there anybody who ever tried, as a test at least , the Flash XDR wit the JVC GY HD 250/1 camera? If yes , was it OK? Is there a decent way of attaching XDR to the camera. How is the quality of the recorded material? Thanks for the answers, Eugen

February 8th, 2009, 01:19 AM	#2
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	I second that Eugene if there is by chance a XDR user with a JVC, it'd be fantastic to see high motion footage in both 720 25p and 720 50p, and also low light footage to see how this great device improves the image with less image breakup, and mosquito noise! Perhaps using a 3db and 6db gain for example. If not, maybe a xhl1 user or something similar that uses the hdv codec, even though the JVC is noisier, it's at least under the 25mpbs mark. Regards Adam

February 8th, 2009, 08:57 PM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Eugen, I have been trying to remember who has tested the Flash XDR with a 250 or 251. I know the Flash XDR has been tested with the 250 or 251, I hope to find out soon. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

February 9th, 2009, 07:35 AM	#6
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	thanks Bill and Dan I was thinking today, what would be the sacrifice I have to make, better lens or XDR, well as soon as a few wrinkles are taken out, I would have to say xdr, Douglas Scott you've definitely had a bad run but like the other users out there, thankyou for your input into the xdr's development. But it would do ones heart well to see the results speak for themselves( re the HD251), Bill how big is it say in comparison to the DRDH100, I must admit that the nano is looking a better option for field work, but one must admit the ability to have the two extra cf ports, and 2 more channels of 24bit audio is a hard one to miss up on.

February 9th, 2009, 08:00 AM	#7
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Adam... I have several FS4HD units I use, camera mounted. The XDR is on the order of twice the size. But, size isn't my concern, altho', it is very bulky. The XDR is fairly heavy, much too heavy for relying on a shoe mount, or any camera mount. Any add on bracketry would need to be substantially mounted to the camera frame. It will, most definitely, shift the CG aft of the camera, making tripod balance very difficult. Adding this to your camera will increase the total weight requirements of your tripod system. Last edited by Bill Ravens; February 9th, 2009 at 02:21 PM.

February 8th, 2009, 07:37 AM	#3
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I don't have an HD250, however, I do have an HD110. My preliminary tests of underexposed images with this cam and the XDR does show somewhat improved low light performance. Unfortunately, I don't shoot PAL, since I'm in the USA. Raising exposure level , in post, results in an improved "grain" structure, more even and smaller grain size. Image quality, otherwise, looks identical to native m2t data captures with an FS4HD. I should note that the component out ports of my HD100 were routed thru a BMD HD-SDI converter prior to input to the XDR. In my opinion, the Flash XDR is much too large to attach directly to my camera. I know it comes with a tripod socket on the back side, but, I would never use it on-camera. I have a nylon strap woven thru the carry handle for over the shoulder wearability. The nano-flash should be much smaller and camera mountable. I'm waiting for the nano-flash to be put into production.

February 8th, 2009, 05:48 PM	#4
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	Thank you very much Bill. Unfortunately there are two significant diferences (at least I think that they are significant) . One is that on our 251 cameras the signal is processed on 14 bits (as far as I remember) compared to 12 on 110 ( which by the way doesn't make the 250 less grainy) and the BMD converter that you are using which may add it's own 'flavour' to the process. Thanks again for the answer and let's hope that Dan Keaton finds a JVC 250 for testing with their baby in order to encourage us, the JVC owners, to buy their products. All the best, Eugen

February 9th, 2009, 08:14 AM	#8
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	in my mind I always invisioned a proper vmount bracket for this baby, like I use with my DRDH100, throwing the weight to the rear, Dan are you guys going to develop something along this line, or is there a 3rd party vendor you can refer to, to pick it up? eg: Provisual Online this was a God send for me, changed the whole balance of the camera for the better, and made more sense, including built in Dtap etc, which the xdrs sound like they need a good battery solution for the field?

February 9th, 2009, 12:49 PM	#9
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	Thank you Dan, Any info about this combination (XDR + JVC 250) is welcome. Eugen

February 9th, 2009, 02:11 PM	#10
Douglas Scott Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Eugene Oregon Posts: 56	I'm using an Israeli Arm to mount the XDR to my HDX900 camera handle and power it with an IDX L7 Lithium battery. The unit sits at the back of the camera, is balanced OK and is near the HD-SDI output. You do have to move the camera to view the XDR vital signs when doing handheld work. With the camera on a tripod, it's easy enough to view the stats. My battery did go down on Saturday and I lost a couple shots. I might go to a larger battery and run both camera and XDR off of it. At least, I'll get some low battery warning that way. There is a power splitter that gives you 4 power taps instead of one from an Anton Bauer power tap. This is handy to run other accessories. Cheers, Scott

February 12th, 2009, 07:57 AM	#11
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Adam, The Flash XDR back plate has four mounting holes to allow the mounting of a V-Lock adapter from IDX, IDX Powering Hi-Def. Certain IDX batteries have a V-Lock mount on the back of the battery, so another V-Lock device can mount to it. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

February 12th, 2009, 09:28 AM	#12
Douglas Scott Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Eugene Oregon Posts: 56	Dan: If you mount a V lock or other type battery to the XDR, how do you mount the combined unit to the camera? Scott

February 12th, 2009, 10:33 AM	#13
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Scott, IDX makes batteries that have a standard V-Lock (I will call it a male V-Mount). The standard V-Lock plate on a camera is female. On the back of some of IDX batteries is a second V-Lock (and it is female). IDX sells an adapter plate which is male (the same type as on most of their batteries). The Flash XDR was designed with this adpater plate in mind. With the adapter plate attached to the back of the Flash XDR, the unit can be mounted to any IDX battery that has the female V-Lock on the back. We offer D-Tap to 4-Pin XLR power cables. We can custom build them for any length. I just had a discussion with IDX, as soon as I have more info, I will provide it. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

February 14th, 2009, 12:47 AM	#14
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Mounting Hey Dan, appreciate you guys are always working hard on solutions, and really I don't know where the 'responsibility' lies with producing something like a xdr in the sense of mounting options, I know it would be logical for 3rd party vendors to create mounting solutions for known products. This IDX solution sounds interesting, but this would therefore be only a solution for people who use IDX batteries, I use GlobalmediaPro batteries for example, which cost half as much as the equivelant IDX counterpart, and no such mounting option is available, thus the reasoning for a good mounting bracket or similar to the product I linked above. Israeli arms are a solution for a great many things, and confess to not having used one personally yet, but would think it'd make a shoulder mounted solution unweildy with XDR hanging off. The DRDH100 for example came with it's own craddle at least so worst case scenario you could mount it to the cold shoe of the camera. The bracket link I gave actually incorporates this into the product. Just some thoughts to help make a good product as transportable as it should and needs to be, or really would this be more considered in the realm of the nano, and we should maybe look at the XDR as either a studio device, or maybe like a form to tethered field recording like one might do with a laptop or other SDI style recording device?

February 14th, 2009, 03:59 AM	#15
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Adam, We are building a variety of mounts for the Flash XDR. All of the followng mounts are made of powder-coated aluminum. Each has a provision for attaching a Baby Pin so they may be easily attached to any grip equipment, if desired. Each has a 1/4" x 20 (tripod screw) threaded hole for attaching to a tripod. Each has appropriate screw holes to attach an Anton Bauer Universal Gold Mount Plate which comes with a 4-Pin XLR power connector that mates to the Flash XDR. We provide this Gold Mount Plate as an option for each of the following. 1. A mount for Zacuto Rails or any other 15 mm rails. This mount has two 15 mm holes, at a slight angle so that it is easy to use the Flash XDR. 2. A mount that allows the Flash XDR to be attached to an Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate. This allows the Flash XDR to be attached to any camera that has a Gold Mount Plate. If mounting the Flash XDR with this mount, then the camera will need to be powered via another means, since this assembly attaches where the battery would be normally. (Our next set of plates solves this problem). 3. A mount that allows the Flash XDR to be attached to an Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate. This version includes three plates. They form a U when assembled. Two of the plates are indentical. They have provisions for mounting the supplied Anton Bauer Gold Mount Studs (3) in two positions. One is higher up on the plate than the other to allow the Flash XDR to be mounted in a High or Low position. These plates also have provisions for attaching a Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate in three positions. This allows the Anton Bauer pro batteries to be attached. The three positions allow the camera to be balanced horizontally by shifting the battery left, center or right. Also, these plates have three sets of mounting holes for the Flash XDR, so that it can be mounted in three different positions, High, Normal, and Low. The third plate in this set is called the bridge plate. It holds the two main plates together and it allows for the attachment of wireless receivers or other gear. This bridge plate currently comes in two sizes, one for the Hytron 50/Dionic 90 size batteries and another for the largest of brick batteries. I am currently waiting for these plates to come back from powder coating. I will post pictures as soon as possible. The system attaches like this: Camera Camera Mounted Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate (original plate on the camera) Main Plate with three Anton Bauer Gold Mount Studs (buttons) attached to the above. Anton Bauer Gold Mount Plate Anton Bauer pro battery (user supplied or we can supply it) Attached to the side of the above Main Plate is the bridge plate. Another Main Plate Flash XDR The Anton Bauer Hubz system can also be used to mount the Flash XDR. For some, the Anton Bauer Elipz battery system is ideal for powering the Flash XDR for more than four hours. This attaches directly to the back of the Flash XDR, or can be attached between a tripod and the camera. We make a special Anton Bauer Elipz battery to 4-Pin XLR cable for this purpose. We also make a D-Tap to 4-Pin XLR cable and a Hirose 4-Pin to 4-Pin XLR power cable. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia