Convergent Designs Flash XDR

Michael Galvan · September 17th, 2007, 08:53 AM

Hi Mike,

Is the timecode needed with the HD-SDI to allow the XDR to remove the telecine on the fly with the XL-H1?

I am planning to do separate system sound and will need to run the timecode out of the camera and slave my audio recorder to it.

Or am I correct in assuming I will have to loop the timecode out from the recorder and back into the Flash XDR?

Mike Schell · September 17th, 2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

Hi Mike,

Is the timecode needed with the HD-SDI to allow the XDR to remove the telecine on the fly with the XL-H1?

I am planning to do separate system sound and will need to run the timecode out of the camera and slave my audio recorder to it.

Or am I correct in assuming I will have to loop the timecode out from the recorder and back into the Flash XDR?

Hi Michael-
We don't need the time-code to remove the telecine frames. The time-code input is mainly to allow you to sync the video to an external audio device.

You should be able to loop the timecode out of the audio recorder as you described. However, since the time-code signal (LTC) is not terminated, you could actually run the time-code out from the camera through the Flash XDR box an then over to your audio record deck (daisy-chain fashion).

Mike Schell

Igor Babic · September 30th, 2007, 04:52 PM

Mike, are you planing to do simpler/cheaper device for HDMI devices?

I am thinking about HDMI+FW input only (no HDSDI input at all (so no two boxes), LTC in/out for sync to other camera maybe, this is missing in alot of smaller cameras that can be used in multicamera setup-one master+few slaves) and with MPEG2 high bitrate encoder ( maybe with some restrictions also like only 3 modes HDV, 50 or 100Mbps.)

I need simple device that can record at the same time with HDV tape (like a slave recorder) but at better (or same) quality then HDV. This device must accept batteries for Canon HV20 or Sony V1 or have some adapter to loopthru that power to camera. (sony has HDV HDD recorder that has its own Batt, and often user forget to power it up...)

Cheaper version that has no MPEG encoder and just records as a slave from FW to CF cards (but with LTC in/out option for sync with other camers or external audio) is also an good way of transition to tape less for many users.

Mike Schell · October 1st, 2007, 10:10 AM

Hi Igor-
We'll certainly consider this sort of device in a future model. We've received a number of requests for a solid-state firewire capture device that would enable a tapeless workflow. As Flash prices continue to drop this becomes an attractive option.

Mike

Thomas Smet · October 5th, 2007, 01:52 AM

Wow this thing is amazing. Sorry I didn't see it until now. This is the perfect device for Avid Liquid users and Liquid Chrome Xe users.

Liquid has native built in support for every profile, level and bitrate of mpeg2.

I have been working on some conversion tools for Liquid users to convert uncompressed footage into mpeg2 at up to 300 mbits I frame only. The conversion tool works great so far but of course it takes time and you still need the large raid to capture the material first. I have tried to make a capture program to capture directly to this format but it needs a lot of raw power in order for it to work well.

The Flash XDR is finally the perfect solution for Liquid. Now you can shoot video to cards and import that footage directly into Liquid and edit HD that is pretty darn close to uncompressed in terms of quality. The beauty of the Liquid Chrome XE (which is Liquid with an added AJA Xena LHE board) is that everything you edit will be in RT back through a SDI port. The best part is that I would assume you could hook the box up to the SDI output from the Xena card to use it as a RT mpeg2 recorder deck to create encoded masters of your projects from feeding live from the timeline.

Heck forget the flash cards. I think you guys should make a version for editors that is a box that encodes but then sends directly to a computer via some connection such as firewire or USB2. I know a lot of Liquid Chrome users who would love to capture to a mpeg2 I frame only format to edit with instead of having to use uncompressed with Liquid.

You guys should really think of marketing this thing towards Liquid Chrome users. They will love this thing. I will let as many of the other Liquid users know that I can. Keep up the great work. Can't wait to see it when it finally is ready.

Stil Williams · October 9th, 2007, 03:21 PM

This might sound a bit strange, but would it be beneficial for the Flash XDR to record SD via SDI ?

John Mitchell · October 22nd, 2007, 01:11 AM

Mike - congratulations. You guys are the true innovators in this area. The combination of this box with Sony's new EX cam looks awesome as it outputs full 1920 x 1080i and P(@24) from the HDSDI port.

I'd reckon a docking solution for that cam will be a winner. I know you've already said you'll look at it but Express card support seems a logical extension of what you are doing.

I still think NLE support will be your biggest hurdle. Avid supports XDCam HD in OP1A MXF but I wonder if they'll ever support all the resolutions your unit is capable of. As Thomas pointed out Liquid is already there, but Liquid is an Avid in name only.

Mike Schell · October 22nd, 2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

Wow this thing is amazing. Sorry I didn't see it until now. This is the perfect device for Avid Liquid users and Liquid Chrome Xe users.

Heck forget the flash cards. I think you guys should make a version for editors that is a box that encodes but then sends directly to a computer via some connection such as firewire or USB2. I know a lot of Liquid Chrome users who would love to capture to a mpeg2 I frame only format to edit with instead of having to use uncompressed with Liquid.

You guys should really think of marketing this thing towards Liquid Chrome users. They will love this thing. I will let as many of the other Liquid users know that I can. Keep up the great work. Can't wait to see it when it finally is ready.

Hi Thomas-
Sorry for the slow reply. We do have a 1394 port on Flash XDR, so theoretically, we could stream out MPEG2 back to a PC/MAC. We would just need to write the 1394 drivers to accept our stream. I'll add this to our list of possible future enhancments.

Thanks for the feedback and reommendations-
Mike Schell

Mike Schell · October 22nd, 2007, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stil Williams

This might sound a bit strange, but would it be beneficial for the Flash XDR to record SD via SDI ?

Hi Stil-
While this is technically possible, most users want DV support. Flash XDR only has an MPEG2 CODEC.

Mike Schell

Mike Schell · October 22nd, 2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

Mike - congratulations. You guys are the true innovators in this area. The combination of this box with Sony's new EX cam looks awesome as it outputs full 1920 x 1080i and P(@24) from the HDSDI port.

I still think NLE support will be your biggest hurdle. Avid supports XDCam HD in OP1A MXF but I wonder if they'll ever support all the resolutions your unit is capable of. As Thomas pointed out Liquid is already there, but Liquid is an Avid in name only.

I think all the major NLE vendors are planning to support the new MPEG2 4:2:2 profile, since Sony will introduce a new 4:2:2 camera early next year. Flash XDR has the exact same hardware CODEC as this camera. All we have done is extend the bit-rate and offer an I-Frame only mode. These additions should be easily supported by most software 4:2:2 MPEG2 CODECs. But I agree, complete support for all frame rates and resolutions, may take a bit longer.

Mike Schell

John Mitchell · October 23rd, 2007, 08:47 AM

Mike - that makes sense as Avid normally supports Sony's high end gear in a timely fashion.

Christopher Barry · October 25th, 2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schell

...since Sony will introduce a new 4:2:2 camera early next year...Mike Schell

Mike, any info as to what Sony camera this is going to replace in the current line up?

Great thread. I only just read it all. Mike, don't go to coffee shops in Amsterdam, your brain is too important to us.

Michael Galvan · October 30th, 2007, 08:09 AM

Hey, I just read the updated FAQ you have for the XDR, and I am even more excited about the product now. I really can't wait for this device, it definitely compliments my XL-H1 perfectly. 160MB MPEG2 I-Frame, real-time reverse telecine to 1080p24 from the HD-SDI, audio at 24bit/48khz, integrated mic pre-amps and XLR inputs w/phantom power; all in a 1lb small box that can mount on the back of the camera.

This is truly an excellent product ... finally something that handles the non-embeded audio issue with the HD-SDI of the XL-H1.

Bravo!

I have a question ... if shooting 1080p24, when you mics connected directly to the XDR, does it record the audio to match the frame rate of the video?

Chris Hurd · October 30th, 2007, 09:02 AM

Convergent Designs has just released their updated F.A.Q. describing a number of significant updates to the forthcoming Flash XDR design. Interested folks can download this document directly from DV Info Net at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=106861

Brian Standing · October 31st, 2007, 12:42 PM

Any way to connect one of these to an SI-2K mini?

September 17th, 2007, 08:53 AM	#61
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Hi Mike, Is the timecode needed with the HD-SDI to allow the XDR to remove the telecine on the fly with the XL-H1? I am planning to do separate system sound and will need to run the timecode out of the camera and slave my audio recorder to it. Or am I correct in assuming I will have to loop the timecode out from the recorder and back into the Flash XDR? __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

September 30th, 2007, 04:52 PM	#63
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	HDMI only with high bitrate MPEG2 enc to CF recorder? Mike, are you planing to do simpler/cheaper device for HDMI devices? I am thinking about HDMI+FW input only (no HDSDI input at all (so no two boxes), LTC in/out for sync to other camera maybe, this is missing in alot of smaller cameras that can be used in multicamera setup-one master+few slaves) and with MPEG2 high bitrate encoder ( maybe with some restrictions also like only 3 modes HDV, 50 or 100Mbps.) I need simple device that can record at the same time with HDV tape (like a slave recorder) but at better (or same) quality then HDV. This device must accept batteries for Canon HV20 or Sony V1 or have some adapter to loopthru that power to camera. (sony has HDV HDD recorder that has its own Batt, and often user forget to power it up...) Cheaper version that has no MPEG encoder and just records as a slave from FW to CF cards (but with LTC in/out option for sync with other camers or external audio) is also an good way of transition to tape less for many users.

October 30th, 2007, 08:09 AM	#73
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Hey, I just read the updated FAQ you have for the XDR, and I am even more excited about the product now. I really can't wait for this device, it definitely compliments my XL-H1 perfectly. 160MB MPEG2 I-Frame, real-time reverse telecine to 1080p24 from the HD-SDI, audio at 24bit/48khz, integrated mic pre-amps and XLR inputs w/phantom power; all in a 1lb small box that can mount on the back of the camera. This is truly an excellent product ... finally something that handles the non-embeded audio issue with the HD-SDI of the XL-H1. Bravo! I have a question ... if shooting 1080p24, when you mics connected directly to the XDR, does it record the audio to match the frame rate of the video? __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

October 30th, 2007, 09:02 AM	#74
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Convergent Designs has just released their updated F.A.Q. describing a number of significant updates to the forthcoming Flash XDR design. Interested folks can download this document directly from DV Info Net at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=106861 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 31st, 2007, 12:42 PM	#75
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	Any way to connect one of these to an SI-2K mini? __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses!

October 1st, 2007, 10:10 AM	#64
Mike Schell Convergent Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 869	Hi Igor- We'll certainly consider this sort of device in a future model. We've received a number of requests for a solid-state firewire capture device that would enable a tapeless workflow. As Flash prices continue to drop this becomes an attractive option. Mike

October 5th, 2007, 01:52 AM	#65
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Wow this thing is amazing. Sorry I didn't see it until now. This is the perfect device for Avid Liquid users and Liquid Chrome Xe users. Liquid has native built in support for every profile, level and bitrate of mpeg2. I have been working on some conversion tools for Liquid users to convert uncompressed footage into mpeg2 at up to 300 mbits I frame only. The conversion tool works great so far but of course it takes time and you still need the large raid to capture the material first. I have tried to make a capture program to capture directly to this format but it needs a lot of raw power in order for it to work well. The Flash XDR is finally the perfect solution for Liquid. Now you can shoot video to cards and import that footage directly into Liquid and edit HD that is pretty darn close to uncompressed in terms of quality. The beauty of the Liquid Chrome XE (which is Liquid with an added AJA Xena LHE board) is that everything you edit will be in RT back through a SDI port. The best part is that I would assume you could hook the box up to the SDI output from the Xena card to use it as a RT mpeg2 recorder deck to create encoded masters of your projects from feeding live from the timeline. Heck forget the flash cards. I think you guys should make a version for editors that is a box that encodes but then sends directly to a computer via some connection such as firewire or USB2. I know a lot of Liquid Chrome users who would love to capture to a mpeg2 I frame only format to edit with instead of having to use uncompressed with Liquid. You guys should really think of marketing this thing towards Liquid Chrome users. They will love this thing. I will let as many of the other Liquid users know that I can. Keep up the great work. Can't wait to see it when it finally is ready.

October 9th, 2007, 03:21 PM	#66
Stil Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 34	This might sound a bit strange, but would it be beneficial for the Flash XDR to record SD via SDI ?

October 22nd, 2007, 01:11 AM	#67
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	Mike - congratulations. You guys are the true innovators in this area. The combination of this box with Sony's new EX cam looks awesome as it outputs full 1920 x 1080i and P(@24) from the HDSDI port. I'd reckon a docking solution for that cam will be a winner. I know you've already said you'll look at it but Express card support seems a logical extension of what you are doing. I still think NLE support will be your biggest hurdle. Avid supports XDCam HD in OP1A MXF but I wonder if they'll ever support all the resolutions your unit is capable of. As Thomas pointed out Liquid is already there, but Liquid is an Avid in name only.

October 23rd, 2007, 08:47 AM	#71
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	Mike - that makes sense as Avid normally supports Sony's high end gear in a timely fashion.