Convergent Designs Flash XDR

[Mike Schell]

Originally Posted by Stefan Sargent

Calumet # IM20902
$69.99 - $35.00 Rebate
$34.99 Your final price after mail-in rebate

4 x 35 = $140 (not $250 - you was robbed)

Hurry offer ends this month
http://www.calumetphoto.com/pdfs/Lex...ebateApr08.pdf

Hi Stefan-
Geez, good find. I am ordering more readers today, so thanks for the tip!

[Mike Schell]

Originally Posted by David Heath

Yes, agreed.

But for real rush jobs you don't even need that 10 minute download. As example, the Firestore can be used for acquisition, then plugged in to an NLE as an external harddrive and editing start immediately - no download time at all. Useful under some circumstances, though it means it can't then be used for anything else until the edit is over, and requires constant powering.

Using your "tape deck" should enable the same "instant edit" capability but without powering issues, and the XDR can still be used for other filming - assuming enough CF cards.

Hi David-
You are absolutely correct. This approach will support instant edits, especially since we get 40 Mbytes/sec transfer speed using the FW-800 reader (on the Trasncend 32GB card). And, since we use removable media (unlike the HDV Hard-Drives) you could continue to capture more video (on a different card) while editing.

We just tested a long write on the Transcend card in the Flash XDR and got 16.6 MBytes/sec. So, this would easily support 80Mbps rate and maybe a bit faster.

[Jim Martin]

Mike-
So A) are you showing at NAB (location) and B) when is the firm release date?

Jim Martin
Birns & Sawyer Inc.

[Mike Schell]

Originally Posted by Jim Martin

Mike-
So A) are you showing at NAB (location) and B) when is the firm release date?

Jim Martin
Birns & Sawyer Inc.

Hi Jim-
We're in booth SL7828. We're scheduled to start shipping product in May 08.

[Rajiv Attingal]

Transcoding is always a possibility. We know it's not ideal, but until the world settles on one CODEC (which will never happen), this will always be a fact of life.[/QUOTE]

JPEG 2000 may be considered as an option. At present not an NLE friendly
CODEC but can change any time.

Rajiv

[Mike Schell]

Originally Posted by Rajiv Attingal

Transcoding is always a possibility. We know it's not ideal, but until the world settles on one CODEC (which will never happen), this will always be a fact of life.

JPEG 2000 may be considered as an option. At present not an NLE friendly
CODEC but can change any time.

Rajiv[/QUOTE]

We seriously looked at JPEG 2000. While certainly a great CODEC, it's very complex to encode and decode. Reports indicate 1-stream playback at best. So, you likely would be forced into a transcode with JPEG 2000. The much touted AVC Intra suffers from the same problem, you absolutely must transcode to edit this format.

While no CODEC is perfect, the playback performance of MPEG2 has become reasonable with the development of native HDV editing. The highly efficient temporal and spatial compression found in MPEG2 produces very high-quality video at bit-rates below 100 Mbps. This allows the use of low-cost Compact Flash cards as storage media.

Every product is a compromise use of the available technology. This is an ever evolving field.

[Jaadgy Akanni]

I've noticed that the GY-HD200u is missing from the list of cameras supported, whereas the HD250u is supported. Why?

[S. Abdul Jamal]

Originally Posted by Jaadgy Akanni

I've noticed that the GY-HD200u is missing from the list of cameras supported, whereas the HD250u is supported. Why?

hd-sdi ouput not available with the hd200 .

[Nikol Manning]

Originally Posted by Mike Schell

Hi David-
You are absolutely correct. This approach will support instant edits, especially since we get 40 Mbytes/sec transfer speed using the FW-800 reader (on the Trasncend 32GB card). And, since we use removable media (unlike the HDV Hard-Drives) you could continue to capture more video (on a different card) while editing.

We just tested a long write on the Transcend card in the Flash XDR and got 16.6 MBytes/sec. So, this would easily support 80Mbps rate and maybe a bit faster.

So is there going to be a 80Mbps setting? If so I think I missed it. It sounds like the 100Mbps won't work with these cards. You could just do 50,75,100,150. 50,75 with current cards and 100 150 with newer faster cards. That would make most folks happy.

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by Mike Schell

... We seriously looked at JPEG 2000. While certainly a great CODEC, it's very complex to encode and decode...

Mike, since you've been up to your elbows in CODEC's, I was wondering if you'd be willing to riff a little on the some of the more popular ones, e.g. DNxHD, ProRes and Cineform. I realize you are not using these in your recorder, but I imagine you've become very familiar with their abilities, and would love to hear what you have to say about them.

From my meger understanding, Cineform is the best b/c it's a wavelet CODEC. DHxHD and ProRes are a small step down interms of quality and are essentially indistiguishable from each other. Is that accurate?

[Serge Victorovich]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

From my meger understanding, Cineform is the best b/c it's a wavelet CODEC.

Totally agree :) Cineform is crossplatform PC<->MAC highly optimised for Intel CPU's.
ProRes for MAC only. BTW, Aja's IOHD good device.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Mike,

Is the EX1's HD-SDI capable of outputting 1080p format? There is a discussion here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=118054

- and the conclusion so far is that, according to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Digital_Interface

- Dual-Link SDI is required for 1080p.

So, would the Flash XDR on the EX1 be limited to 1080i modes only?

Please answer asap; TIA

Piotr

[Thomas Smet]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Mike, since you've been up to your elbows in CODEC's, I was wondering if you'd be willing to riff a little on the some of the more popular ones, e.g. DNxHD, ProRes and Cineform. I realize you are not using these in your recorder, but I imagine you've become very familiar with their abilities, and would love to hear what you have to say about them.

From my meger understanding, Cineform is the best b/c it's a wavelet CODEC. DHxHD and ProRes are a small step down interms of quality and are essentially indistiguishable from each other. Is that accurate?

Cineform is fine if you use Premiere, Vegas or FCP. If you use any other NLE you are pretty much SOL. Cineform tends to be much larger in size as well which means a limited recording time. File size may be equal to the 160 mbit I frame mode but the smaller long form GOP modes offer amazing quality for a much lower bitrate then what Cineform can use. Cineform also is not very cheap when you get into the good forms of the codec. Sure Neo HDV is cheap but many people would want to go up to at least full HD. There is also a wide range is Cineform products based on what NLE you use. The is Aspect, Neo and Prospect. Which one would they use?

Clearly not very many people have ever seen high bitrate mpeg2 or they would know how good it can look. Long form 100 mbit and I frame only 160 mbit should look pretty darn close if not slightly better then ProRess422 and DnxHD. Sure perhaps Cineform has a tiny edge in quality but it isn't as universal as some people think it is. mpeg2 in MXF is already supported by every major NLE out there. Supporting the XDR will either already work with your NLE or your NLE will only need a small update to tell it to allow higher bitrates. As long as their are flagship cameras such as the XDCAMHD line and the EX1 we will see all the major NLE's support mpeg2. In fact I have already loaded my own 300 mbit m2v files into Premiere with no problem at all. Usually mpeg2 decoders don't really care what profile, level and bitrate was used.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Piotr,

The Flash XDR is currently designed to support the more common single-link version of HD-SDI, as used by most cameras with HD-SDI.

It would be interesting to see if two Flash XDR boxes could be used to record dual-link HD-SDI from very high end cameras that support dual-link.

So, with one available HD-SDI link from a Sony EX1, the Flash XDR should be able to record any format that the EX1 can send over the cable.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Thanks Dan,

I should make it clear that Mike has already addressed the "issue" - the information in the thread I linked to (about 1080/30p not being outputted by the EX1's HD-SDI) is simply untrue. As Mike points out, even if the progressive signal is output within interlaced stream will pull-down added, the Flash XDR can get rid of those extra frames and record native 24/25/30p. This information is enough for me to stop worrying about it.