Which Cineform? at DVinfo.net

Trevor Allin · January 23rd, 2006, 09:11 AM

hi

I am slightly confused as to whic cineform product I need. I want to capture HDV without loss, and use it in Serious Magic's ULTRA for keying. Can anyone advise me whether I should buy Aspect, Connect or Prospect?

Thanks,

Trevor

Michael Stewart · January 23rd, 2006, 09:32 AM

Do you have a particular NLE you are currently using? Aspect and Prospect are for Premiere Pro and Connect is for Sony Vegas, go to www.cineform.com for clearer explanations and info to help you choose.

Mike

David Taylor · January 23rd, 2006, 11:47 AM

Trevor,

Michael's answer was right. I'll add just a bit more color. Assuming you are using Premiere Pro as your editing app, then you want Aspect HD (or Prospect HD for 10-bit). If you are using Vegas then you want Connect HD. (Micheal said all this).

If you have any of the CineForm products installed, the CineForm codec should be recognized properly by ULTRA, or any other AVI-compatible app.

If you're not using either PPro or Vegas, then you can still use the CineForm codecs by installing Connect HD. Connect HD installs the CineForm codecs on the system, plus our HDV I/O utility called HDLink. If you haven't already, you can try it out by using the 15-day trial from our website.

David.

Dave Campbell · January 23rd, 2006, 02:30 PM

Ultra will only do 8 bit output. They told me there has not been enough requests to make 10 bit yet.

Dave

David Taylor · January 23rd, 2006, 02:46 PM

In fact that is true - sorry I didn't mention this earlier. Currently you can only get out 10 bits with Premiere Pro and After Effects becasue of the importer/exporter components that come with Prospect HD.

Dave Campbell · January 23rd, 2006, 02:48 PM

I used my Ultra 8 bit in my Prospect 10 bit project with no issues.

dave

Chris Klidonas · July 16th, 2007, 08:25 PM

I am new to this and it seems the website is written for people who may be way ahead of me, so this is likely a simple question. Which version is right for me? I am using Sony Vegas 7 shooting and working mainly with a Canon XHA1 and HV20 mainly 60i and 24f and plan to stay at HD format until final rendering which would be to each specific format, be it bluray, standard dvd, back to tape, websize flash and mov/wmv files.

So which cineform is right? if it keeps the format at 1440 instead of 1920 what should my working space be since output for hd is 1920?

Also is there a reason or benefit/loss to capturing from the video camera in Cineform vs capturing in Vegas as mt2 and converting?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Chris

Jon McGuffin · July 16th, 2007, 11:36 PM

Chris,

The version you are looking at is the NeoHDV package they sell for $250. This is a very good package and includes HDLink which is their capture utility that will, on the fly, create both Cineform .avi files + .m2t files provided your computer is up to par as far as speed is concerned. I'm sure yours is considering a previous post I read of yours. There will be no need to use the included capture utility inside of Sony Vegas 7. Cineform has good support for 24F and 60i as well.

Don't be confused with 1440X1080 vs 1920X1080. The A1 and HV20 record in 1440 with a Pixel Aspect Ratio of 1.33 which will push the 1440 to 1920 pixels. If you desire to output 1920x1080 this will not be an issue.

Jon

David Taylor · July 16th, 2007, 11:43 PM

Chris, the simple answer is that Neo HDV is probably the right CineForm product for you. Neo HDV supports all modes of both camcorders including telecine removal in the 24p modes to allow a native 24p editing workflow. The HDV spec for horizontal resolution is 1440.

In general you'll want to capture using HDLink (part of Neo HDV) because HDLink can remove the telecine cadence during capture and convert to CineForm Intermediate all in one step.

You should experiment with the Neo HDV Trial, and also check out our Tech Notes which list HDLink settings for various capture modes.

David Taylor · July 16th, 2007, 11:46 PM

Thanks Jon. I was in the middle of typing so I didn't see your post....

Todd Clark · July 17th, 2007, 08:34 AM

Can you guy's tell us what the benifits would be to move up to Aspect?

David Taylor · July 17th, 2007, 08:52 AM

Aspect HD contains all of Neo HD, but also includes CineForm's real-time processing engine specifically for Premiere Pro. (Think Matrox accelerator card but without the hardware). The codec is the same, the conversion utilities are the same, etc. If you're using PPro then you should use Aspect HD - if not, use Neo HDV (or Neo HD). BTW, Neo NDV also includes the AE importer/exporter so even if you're using PPro with Aspect HD for editing on one machine you can use Neo HD with AE on another machine.

Deke Ryland · July 17th, 2007, 09:33 AM

Hey David... quick question:

I have Premiere Pro CS3 and only wish to use the Adobe presets, effects, etc (not the AspectHD effects). Could I get Neo HDV for editing in Premiere Pro using Adobe's effects and get the same performance as using AspectHD?

In other words, it sounds like the cineform editing engine for PP that comes with AspectHD is only in effect when using cineform effects... is this correct?

David Taylor · July 17th, 2007, 01:47 PM

Deke, Even for single-stream playback without effects Aspect HD and Prospect HD exploit the multi-res nature of Wavelets (which CineForm is) to lower the CPU load.

Modern PCs are now fast enought that what you're suggesting is mostly true, but first check single-stream playback for CineForm files on the PPro timeline using Neo HDV (or Neo HD) versus Aspect HD with our Trial versions.

If you install both, make sure to uninstall the first before installing the second.

Deke Ryland · July 17th, 2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

Deke, Even for single-stream playback without effects Aspect HD and Prospect HD exploit the multi-res nature of Wavelets (which CineForm is) to lower the CPU load.

Modern PCs are now fast enought that what you're suggesting is mostly true, but first check single-stream playback for CineForm files on the PPro timeline using Neo HDV (or Neo HD) versus Aspect HD with our Trial versions.

If you install both, make sure to uninstall the first before installing the second.

Thanks for the clarification on that David. Just to get your 2cents... I have an Intel Quad-Core Extreme processor, 4GB RAM and dedicated drives (not raid though). You think the performance editing Cineform files in Premiere would be pretty similar between Neo HDV and AspectHD?

January 23rd, 2006, 09:11 AM	#1
Trevor Allin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 152	Which cineform? hi I am slightly confused as to whic cineform product I need. I want to capture HDV without loss, and use it in Serious Magic's ULTRA for keying. Can anyone advise me whether I should buy Aspect, Connect or Prospect? Thanks, Trevor

July 16th, 2007, 08:25 PM	#7
Chris Klidonas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NY, NY Posts: 129	Which Cineform? I am new to this and it seems the website is written for people who may be way ahead of me, so this is likely a simple question. Which version is right for me? I am using Sony Vegas 7 shooting and working mainly with a Canon XHA1 and HV20 mainly 60i and 24f and plan to stay at HD format until final rendering which would be to each specific format, be it bluray, standard dvd, back to tape, websize flash and mov/wmv files. So which cineform is right? if it keeps the format at 1440 instead of 1920 what should my working space be since output for hd is 1920? Also is there a reason or benefit/loss to capturing from the video camera in Cineform vs capturing in Vegas as mt2 and converting? Thanks for any help you can offer. Chris

January 23rd, 2006, 09:32 AM	#2
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	Do you have a particular NLE you are currently using? Aspect and Prospect are for Premiere Pro and Connect is for Sony Vegas, go to www.cineform.com for clearer explanations and info to help you choose. Mike

January 23rd, 2006, 11:47 AM	#3
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Trevor, Michael's answer was right. I'll add just a bit more color. Assuming you are using Premiere Pro as your editing app, then you want Aspect HD (or Prospect HD for 10-bit). If you are using Vegas then you want Connect HD. (Micheal said all this). If you have any of the CineForm products installed, the CineForm codec should be recognized properly by ULTRA, or any other AVI-compatible app. If you're not using either PPro or Vegas, then you can still use the CineForm codecs by installing Connect HD. Connect HD installs the CineForm codecs on the system, plus our HDV I/O utility called HDLink. If you haven't already, you can try it out by using the 15-day trial from our website. David.

January 23rd, 2006, 02:30 PM	#4
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Ultra will only do 8 bit output. They told me there has not been enough requests to make 10 bit yet. Dave

January 23rd, 2006, 02:46 PM	#5
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	In fact that is true - sorry I didn't mention this earlier. Currently you can only get out 10 bits with Premiere Pro and After Effects becasue of the importer/exporter components that come with Prospect HD.

January 23rd, 2006, 02:48 PM	#6
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	I used my Ultra 8 bit in my Prospect 10 bit project with no issues. dave

July 16th, 2007, 11:36 PM	#8
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	Chris, The version you are looking at is the NeoHDV package they sell for $250. This is a very good package and includes HDLink which is their capture utility that will, on the fly, create both Cineform .avi files + .m2t files provided your computer is up to par as far as speed is concerned. I'm sure yours is considering a previous post I read of yours. There will be no need to use the included capture utility inside of Sony Vegas 7. Cineform has good support for 24F and 60i as well. Don't be confused with 1440X1080 vs 1920X1080. The A1 and HV20 record in 1440 with a Pixel Aspect Ratio of 1.33 which will push the 1440 to 1920 pixels. If you desire to output 1920x1080 this will not be an issue. Jon

July 16th, 2007, 11:43 PM	#9
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Chris, the simple answer is that Neo HDV is probably the right CineForm product for you. Neo HDV supports all modes of both camcorders including telecine removal in the 24p modes to allow a native 24p editing workflow. The HDV spec for horizontal resolution is 1440. In general you'll want to capture using HDLink (part of Neo HDV) because HDLink can remove the telecine cadence during capture and convert to CineForm Intermediate all in one step. You should experiment with the Neo HDV Trial, and also check out our Tech Notes which list HDLink settings for various capture modes.

July 16th, 2007, 11:46 PM	#10
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Thanks Jon. I was in the middle of typing so I didn't see your post....

July 17th, 2007, 08:34 AM	#11
Todd Clark Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Parma, Oh Posts: 172	Can you guy's tell us what the benifits would be to move up to Aspect?

July 17th, 2007, 08:52 AM	#12
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Aspect HD contains all of Neo HD, but also includes CineForm's real-time processing engine specifically for Premiere Pro. (Think Matrox accelerator card but without the hardware). The codec is the same, the conversion utilities are the same, etc. If you're using PPro then you should use Aspect HD - if not, use Neo HDV (or Neo HD). BTW, Neo NDV also includes the AE importer/exporter so even if you're using PPro with Aspect HD for editing on one machine you can use Neo HD with AE on another machine.

July 17th, 2007, 09:33 AM	#13
Deke Ryland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Washington, USA Posts: 213	Hey David... quick question: I have Premiere Pro CS3 and only wish to use the Adobe presets, effects, etc (not the AspectHD effects). Could I get Neo HDV for editing in Premiere Pro using Adobe's effects and get the same performance as using AspectHD? In other words, it sounds like the cineform editing engine for PP that comes with AspectHD is only in effect when using cineform effects... is this correct?

July 17th, 2007, 01:47 PM	#14
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Deke, Even for single-stream playback without effects Aspect HD and Prospect HD exploit the multi-res nature of Wavelets (which CineForm is) to lower the CPU load. Modern PCs are now fast enought that what you're suggesting is mostly true, but first check single-stream playback for CineForm files on the PPro timeline using Neo HDV (or Neo HD) versus Aspect HD with our Trial versions. If you install both, make sure to uninstall the first before installing the second.