Cineform AVI not recognized in Liquid Chrome at DVinfo.net

Jon Springer · July 14th, 2007, 03:00 PM

I imported the converted Cineform AVI (from m2T) into Liquid Chrome Xe and I got a black screen and the file wouldn't play in the player. I tried the Cineform MOV and it crashed the application. I'm using the 15 day trial of NEO HD.

Has anyone here tried Cineform with Liquid?

Jon Springer · July 15th, 2007, 10:29 AM

Okay then.....

Robert Dolphin · July 16th, 2007, 04:23 AM

Doesn't work for me either. Haven't tried a Quicktime file but Liquid won't work with a current version of Quicktime anyway.

David Taylor · July 16th, 2007, 01:40 PM

Sorry guys, we haven't done any work at CineForm with Liquid Chrome.

When Liquid was part of Pinnacle we had users report that CineForm files would work. But Avid's strategy in general is to not support third-party codecs very well, even if they have industry standard wrappers like MOV or AVI.

If anybody finds a formula within Liquid Chrome let us know.

Thomas Smet · July 17th, 2007, 08:36 AM

Liquid doesn't like any other AVI codec other then the ones that are designed to work with it. Right now that means RGB "none", DV and mjpeg. Any other AVI codec doesn't seem to work at all although a few Blackmagic codecs will import but they are very slow and clunky.

Quicktime files will import into Liquid but they get converted right away to what codec is set for your timeline. This means you will end up converting the Cineform quicktime files to another format such as HDV or uncompressed. So unless you do not mind working with huge uncompressed files you would be better off just sticking to a HDV workflow.

Liquid does have a wide range of other supported formats such as mpeg1, mpeg2 and mpeg4. It is only AVI files that have a restriction.

I am pretty sure the way Liquid works that a codec has to be built into the program in order to work in RT. This means Avid would have to get permission from Cineform to build the codec into the program or at least offer a plugin path so people could add it to their systems. There is no import/export plugin interface for Liquid so the only option would be for Cineform to allow the trial version to be built into Liquid and have the users purchase a password or whatever to activate the trial version to a full version.

Cineform would have to contact Avid to see what they could work out. I am a tester for Liquid and I know a lot of Liquid users would love to have an option for lightly compressed HD. Right now us Chrome users have HDV or uncompressed as our only options. Compared to Cineform uncompressed is a total waste and we would love to have the option to work with a Chrome XE system without needing a huge raid. I actually work with 150mbit and 300mbit I frame only 4:2:2 mpeg2 files in Liquid. I have to capture as uncompressed first and then batch convert to the mpeg2 format. After that however I can edit much easier in Liquid.

David Taylor · July 17th, 2007, 08:48 AM

Only some minor words-smithing on Thomas' excellent post. We would love to have CineForm products supported by all NLEs / compositors, etc. Certain products (Avid's in particular) compile in the supported codecs, and specifically disallow other codecs to be supported. In fact we have had multiple conversations with Avid about opening up this interface, but at this point it remains a "software architecture" decision. Any supported codecs must be engineered in by Avid.

There are a few other products in the industry where this is also a problem. Ultimately I think it works against these manufacturers as the industry races forward with new formats and techniques faster than the manufacturers can keep up with their centrist policies.

July 14th, 2007, 03:00 PM	#1
Jon Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 100	Cineform AVI not recognized in Liquid Chrome I imported the converted Cineform AVI (from m2T) into Liquid Chrome Xe and I got a black screen and the file wouldn't play in the player. I tried the Cineform MOV and it crashed the application. I'm using the 15 day trial of NEO HD. Has anyone here tried Cineform with Liquid?

July 15th, 2007, 10:29 AM	#2
Jon Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 100	Okay then.....

July 16th, 2007, 04:23 AM	#3
Robert Dolphin New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mt Colah, NSW, Australia Posts: 6	Doesn't work for me either. Haven't tried a Quicktime file but Liquid won't work with a current version of Quicktime anyway.

July 16th, 2007, 01:40 PM	#4
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Sorry guys, we haven't done any work at CineForm with Liquid Chrome. When Liquid was part of Pinnacle we had users report that CineForm files would work. But Avid's strategy in general is to not support third-party codecs very well, even if they have industry standard wrappers like MOV or AVI. If anybody finds a formula within Liquid Chrome let us know.

July 17th, 2007, 08:36 AM	#5
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Liquid doesn't like any other AVI codec other then the ones that are designed to work with it. Right now that means RGB "none", DV and mjpeg. Any other AVI codec doesn't seem to work at all although a few Blackmagic codecs will import but they are very slow and clunky. Quicktime files will import into Liquid but they get converted right away to what codec is set for your timeline. This means you will end up converting the Cineform quicktime files to another format such as HDV or uncompressed. So unless you do not mind working with huge uncompressed files you would be better off just sticking to a HDV workflow. Liquid does have a wide range of other supported formats such as mpeg1, mpeg2 and mpeg4. It is only AVI files that have a restriction. I am pretty sure the way Liquid works that a codec has to be built into the program in order to work in RT. This means Avid would have to get permission from Cineform to build the codec into the program or at least offer a plugin path so people could add it to their systems. There is no import/export plugin interface for Liquid so the only option would be for Cineform to allow the trial version to be built into Liquid and have the users purchase a password or whatever to activate the trial version to a full version. Cineform would have to contact Avid to see what they could work out. I am a tester for Liquid and I know a lot of Liquid users would love to have an option for lightly compressed HD. Right now us Chrome users have HDV or uncompressed as our only options. Compared to Cineform uncompressed is a total waste and we would love to have the option to work with a Chrome XE system without needing a huge raid. I actually work with 150mbit and 300mbit I frame only 4:2:2 mpeg2 files in Liquid. I have to capture as uncompressed first and then batch convert to the mpeg2 format. After that however I can edit much easier in Liquid.

July 17th, 2007, 08:48 AM	#6
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Only some minor words-smithing on Thomas' excellent post. We would love to have CineForm products supported by all NLEs / compositors, etc. Certain products (Avid's in particular) compile in the supported codecs, and specifically disallow other codecs to be supported. In fact we have had multiple conversations with Avid about opening up this interface, but at this point it remains a "software architecture" decision. Any supported codecs must be engineered in by Avid. There are a few other products in the industry where this is also a problem. Ultimately I think it works against these manufacturers as the industry races forward with new formats and techniques faster than the manufacturers can keep up with their centrist policies.