NEO-HDV: Smart Rendering setting with Sony Vegas? at DVinfo.net

Michael Wisniewski · May 31st, 2007, 10:22 PM

Does anyone know, how much this setting speeds up exports from Vegas? Does it affect everything exported from Vegas or only certain file formats?

James Binder · June 7th, 2007, 09:57 AM

Thought I'd bumb this to the top -- I have the same question...

What exactly does smart render do? And what are the cons in not using it?

thanks

Kris Bird · June 8th, 2007, 08:12 AM

I'd like to know this too.... our projects are always time-critical so it seems that I never get around to testing it ;) I always cap with my safe settings, split scenes, quality high...

We often need a lot of simultaneous streams, and cineform is so fast that we are ALWAYS hard disk bound before we are CPU bound .. so I haven't risked checking this box and potentially speeding things down with increased datarates.

Render time is of course always an issue, though .. so I do plan to seriously test the pros and cons of this shortly.

David Newman · June 8th, 2007, 08:20 AM

Smart render means frame are copied directly from input to output file without decompression then re-compression if nothing is changed, this requires that CineForm is the output format. For the segments that have no filters, it copies as fast as the drive(s) allows. Files are between 15-25% larger.

Kris Bird · June 9th, 2007, 07:17 AM

aha, that makes sense... makes it pointless for us though, we're effects/filters heavy

Brad Higerd · July 1st, 2010, 02:11 PM

David,

Does that mean someone converting ACVHD and MOV files to the Cineform codec with the I-frame button checked gain nothing if they're color-correcting everything? In essence, does the I-frame seeting effect output quality in any way?

Thanks,
Brad

David Newman · July 1st, 2010, 02:28 PM

I-frame means each frame is store separately rather than pair of frames being compressed together. Quality difference is extremely minor, but I-frame has a slight advantage.

Brad Higerd · July 2nd, 2010, 07:34 AM

Good info David, as usual.

On a side note, I'm using both AVCHD and MOV footage, and I've come to the conclusion that Cineform has the best PC-based (maybe Mac too, but I don't associate with those types) solution for mixing the two formats in a project. I thought, really hoped, Adobe CS5 would have the "native" answer, but their native AVCHD management is deplorable.

So thanks for a great product that has already enabled me to produce critical interview footage between a man who'll be famous soon enough and a Hollywood producer who's interested in doing more with his story than the movie currently in production—Machine Gun Preacher. The interview was shot through a T2i and a 17-55mm f/2.8 (audio recorded through a Zoom), and the walking around led to some amazing outside shallow-DOF lake-back-dropped footage. If it wasn't proprietary, I'd share it gladly. There were segments that rivaled anything I've seen on the big screen (technology, not operator driven).

My "camera B," which looks like a joke, is a Sony HX5V/B. I use it mostly to shoot video of my daughter (as it's like having a steadycam in your pocket), and the footage is superb, thanks again to Cineform. I've been bringing the full 1920x1080 Cineform files into Vegas interlaced, then de-interlacing, and each frame is generally breathtaking (assuming adequate lighting). The AVCHD codec could be handled directly, but it stutters and just doesn't CC as well as your codec. I'm not sure what kind of voodoo your developers are using, but please keep them waving their dead chickens (or whatever they do at their desks).

Again, thanks for producing a great product!

Brad

Brad Higerd · July 8th, 2010, 06:46 AM

It should be added that whether or not I continue to use Cineform as an intermediate in future video editing applications, Cineform has earned the right to be my mastering codec. (Just know, David, that if Cineform ever self-destructs, and in the process, your people disengage my software from your global satellite network, I'll pay some kids at Full Sail to hack your code. Count on it!)

May 31st, 2007, 10:22 PM	#1
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	NEO-HDV: Smart Rendering setting with Sony Vegas? Does anyone know, how much this setting speeds up exports from Vegas? Does it affect everything exported from Vegas or only certain file formats? __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

June 8th, 2007, 08:20 AM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Smart render means frame are copied directly from input to output file without decompression then re-compression if nothing is changed, this requires that CineForm is the output format. For the segments that have no filters, it copies as fast as the drive(s) allows. Files are between 15-25% larger. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

July 1st, 2010, 02:28 PM	#7
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I-frame means each frame is store separately rather than pair of frames being compressed together. Quality difference is extremely minor, but I-frame has a slight advantage. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 7th, 2007, 09:57 AM	#2
James Binder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NY, NYC Posts: 367	Thought I'd bumb this to the top -- I have the same question... What exactly does smart render do? And what are the cons in not using it? thanks

June 8th, 2007, 08:12 AM	#3
Kris Bird Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 173	I'd like to know this too.... our projects are always time-critical so it seems that I never get around to testing it ;) I always cap with my safe settings, split scenes, quality high... We often need a lot of simultaneous streams, and cineform is so fast that we are ALWAYS hard disk bound before we are CPU bound .. so I haven't risked checking this box and potentially speeding things down with increased datarates. Render time is of course always an issue, though .. so I do plan to seriously test the pros and cons of this shortly.

June 9th, 2007, 07:17 AM	#5
Kris Bird Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 173	aha, that makes sense... makes it pointless for us though, we're effects/filters heavy

July 1st, 2010, 02:11 PM	#6
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	David, Does that mean someone converting ACVHD and MOV files to the Cineform codec with the I-frame button checked gain nothing if they're color-correcting everything? In essence, does the I-frame seeting effect output quality in any way? Thanks, Brad

July 2nd, 2010, 07:34 AM	#8
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	Good info David, as usual. On a side note, I'm using both AVCHD and MOV footage, and I've come to the conclusion that Cineform has the best PC-based (maybe Mac too, but I don't associate with those types) solution for mixing the two formats in a project. I thought, really hoped, Adobe CS5 would have the "native" answer, but their native AVCHD management is deplorable. So thanks for a great product that has already enabled me to produce critical interview footage between a man who'll be famous soon enough and a Hollywood producer who's interested in doing more with his story than the movie currently in production—Machine Gun Preacher. The interview was shot through a T2i and a 17-55mm f/2.8 (audio recorded through a Zoom), and the walking around led to some amazing outside shallow-DOF lake-back-dropped footage. If it wasn't proprietary, I'd share it gladly. There were segments that rivaled anything I've seen on the big screen (technology, not operator driven). My "camera B," which looks like a joke, is a Sony HX5V/B. I use it mostly to shoot video of my daughter (as it's like having a steadycam in your pocket), and the footage is superb, thanks again to Cineform. I've been bringing the full 1920x1080 Cineform files into Vegas interlaced, then de-interlacing, and each frame is generally breathtaking (assuming adequate lighting). The AVCHD codec could be handled directly, but it stutters and just doesn't CC as well as your codec. I'm not sure what kind of voodoo your developers are using, but please keep them waving their dead chickens (or whatever they do at their desks). Again, thanks for producing a great product! Brad

July 8th, 2010, 06:46 AM	#9
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	It should be added that whether or not I continue to use Cineform as an intermediate in future video editing applications, Cineform has earned the right to be my mastering codec. (Just know, David, that if Cineform ever self-destructs, and in the process, your people disengage my software from your global satellite network, I'll pay some kids at Full Sail to hack your code. Count on it!)