60i to 24p, no ghosting?

[Eric Edwards]

Hey Everyone,

I have been converting all my footage that I shoot with my sony fx1 in native 60i to 24p. I must say that I am happy with it, I do like the feel and motion of it. I just noticed that I get a lot of ghosting with it. I was just wondering if there is a way to remove some of it, or tone it down a bit. If not, I mean, I guess I can live with it, I was just wondering if there is a way to go from 60i to 24p to get that motion without having all the ghosting effects that happens from that transfer. Thanks everyone.

Eric T. Edwards

[Jon Jaschob]

Where are you seeing the "ghosting"? In the raw footage or in your NLE. Also what NLE program are you using? If it's PRo2 and your seeing the ghosting in the timeline, right click and turn of frame blending.
sorry, all the help I can provide,
Jon

[Eric Edwards]

Ya sorry for not providing more info...im seeing it in my timeline. Im using Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and the frame blending is off and I still see it. I guess I can try exporting it out and see if its there, should I see it on my clip or final product, or will I only see it on the timeline?

Anyhow, if you need anymore info, please let me know and I thank you for the information thus far.

[David Newman]

If you are converting regular 60i to 24p there will be some artifacting as fields have to be blended to convert 60Hz sampling to 24Hz. The ghost artifacting can be minimized by shooting with a 60Hz shutter. They are other deinterlacing options to that trade off less resolution for less ghosting, the CineForm deinterlacer goes for the highest resolution.

[Eric Edwards]

Oh ok, ive been shooting 1/60 second always, so I suppose thats the best thing to do. So I take it I just basically have to live with it then? I guess that is fine, it still looks pretty good. Do you have any tips for shooting things with motion then, or is it we just have to live with it how it is, or our only other option is to fork out the big bucks for a better camera?

[David Newman]

24p cadence is a hard look to achieve in post -- just like a 60i to 24p conversions used in film like Hoop Dreams or Super Size Me, there 60i nature is still evident through ghosting or worse motion aliasing (I prefer the ghosting.) The ghosting with a 1/60th source is like using a 360 degree shutter angle, it simply an increased motion blur over that of the typical 180 degree of 24p/film.

[Eric Edwards]

Sorry to prolonge this discussion, but do you think in your honest opinion that upgrading from a Sony FX1 to say...a HVX-200 or equivelent would be a good choice in my situation of trying to get a good 24p feel and motion, etc. I know these cameras shoot native 24p, so it would be easier, but would it really make a difference in the end result?

I only say this, because I know I lose quality in Cineform, as well as anything converting from 60i to 24p. So if I shot native 24p, I could preserve quality, etc. But what would your opinion on this be, necessary or not really to upgrade it?

[David Newman]

There is no "necessary" when it come to the camera. Shoot with a Fisher Price PIXL 2000, as long as you make a good story. 24p from HVX200 will look a little better, although it is one of the weaker price performance choices for 24p, although 60p overcranking can be nice. JVC's 24p does well, as does a Sony V1. Upgrading a FX1 to a V1 via ebay is a $1200 move, for that you can get Canon HV20, also 24p, although you can't do full manual, still it is a nice camera (sadly we are only borrowing a HV20 and it has to go back.) I expect Sony XDCAM EX will be nice, if you can't afford an SI-2K. Lots of choice, including staying with the FX1. There is no choice that is perfect.

[Eric Edwards]

Well thanks for the info, I guess for these type of cameras, it is probably fine to stick with the fx1 until I move up to something higher like xd cam, 2k or even 4k in the future. I really appreciate the information, it helped a lot.

[Eric Edwards]

Sorry one, more question, how is the GDHD250? those type of cameras, I dont think they are HDV, but HDCam, so it makes them better I suppose?

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Eric Edwards

Sorry one, more question, how is the GDHD250? those type of cameras, I dont think they are HDV, but HDCam, so it makes them better I suppose?

GD do you mean GY-HD250? that is JVC's Pro HDV, and very nice.

[Eric Edwards]

Yes that is the one I am talking about, is that a huge leap forward in comparison to the FX1, and would I still be able to use cineform with that camera? also, sorry to bug about the questions, but if it is better, it probably captures uncompressed, or? im not sure how it works. Sorry for these questions.

[David Newman]

It is still an HDV camera, although the 720p24 HDV format has the lowest compression of all the HDV modes/cameras. That is a nice camera, and yes it works fine with the CineForm tools.

[Eric Edwards]

Awesome, thanks again for all the information, im sure i'll just stick to the fx1 for a while longer and then start researching into future cameras and what not to start getting better visuals with less compression. Again, I am much appreciative of your help.