Canon A1 or G1 and After Effects at DVinfo.net

Stuart Brontman · May 6th, 2007, 04:46 AM

I'm about to finalize an order for one of these two cameras - the Canon XH A1 or XH G1. My current SD workflow is capture to PPro 2.0, composite/effects in After Effects 7.0, render the file back to PPro 2.0 for assembly with other clips, and out to DVD. With a new client and my first HD project, I will keep a similar workflow, but output to Blu-Ray disc or some other HD format for display on an HD monitor at industrial trade shows.

With this in mind, any thoughts from Cineform users how the image from the A1 will compare to a direct ingest from HD-SDI (via Cineform) from the G1. Will the A1 HDV image - converted to Cineform intermediate files - hold up to After Effects compositing and assembly in PPro? If I need to go the G1 route, I've got no cost-effective way to capture HD-SDI, so I'm HOPING the A1 HDV footage will hold up well as a Cineform file. I've seen footage from the A1 and it looks beautiful, but I've not seen how it looks after After Effects work. The Colorspace "Indie" looks promising for HD-SDI field capture, but at another $6k why not wait until the XDCAM EX comes out and use the A1 for the next 6-8 months?

Thanks!

Stuart

Peter Ferling · May 6th, 2007, 10:37 AM

I have done comparative test between HDV and HDSDI capture, and both images look similiar, until you compare with the source for reference, the HDV colors are a little off, and there is more data in the HDSDI image. If the image gallery ever comes back on-line, I could point you to them.

Check my thread here about PPro3 and cineform, I have some examples begining at the 4th page, using a so-so setup, HDSDI capture with a G1, and still getting a good key in AE.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=91643&page=4

I guess when I get to the studio, time permiting, I could convert one of my HDSDI captures to an m2t then back to cineform and see how it keys then. Hmmm.

Also keep in mind that with a G1 you'll need as a minimum, the AJA Xena HS card. For a few bucks more you could spring for the LH which has the analog ports as well. PPro2 and 3 were designed to working the Xena HS card. Cineform will add the additional code needed to work with the LH cards.

The other benefit with an AJA card is external monitoring in real time, as there is a buffer/sync delay with Nvidia cards and using overlay to a second PC monitor. The overlay playback also needs to be adjusted for brightness an contrast, which the Nvidia cards provide, and the ATI apparent do not.

Just more to think about what you'll get for that extra money.

David Taylor · May 6th, 2007, 01:42 PM

Stuart, one other consideration for you. You could capture from the A1 using a Blackmagic Intensity card which CineForm software supports. The HDMI output from the A1 bypasses MPEG compression (as does HD-SDI) yielding a higher-quality record than going through tape first. If you intend much compositing/effects work, then bypassing MPEG is a good thing....

Geoff Dills · May 6th, 2007, 03:11 PM

Think you're confusing your A1s...he's talking Canon, not Sony...no HDMI on the Canon

David Taylor · May 6th, 2007, 05:15 PM

Yep - I was thinking HV20 at the time, not A1 - sorry about that.

But...if you want the visual quality of HD-SDI ingest but without the expense, you might at least consider the Sony HVR-V1U. It puts out some very nice pictures, including 24p, and has HDMI.

But we don't yet support timeline monitoring using the Blackmagic Intensity card, just ingest using our HDLink software.

May 6th, 2007, 04:46 AM	#1
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	Canon A1 or G1 and After Effects I'm about to finalize an order for one of these two cameras - the Canon XH A1 or XH G1. My current SD workflow is capture to PPro 2.0, composite/effects in After Effects 7.0, render the file back to PPro 2.0 for assembly with other clips, and out to DVD. With a new client and my first HD project, I will keep a similar workflow, but output to Blu-Ray disc or some other HD format for display on an HD monitor at industrial trade shows. With this in mind, any thoughts from Cineform users how the image from the A1 will compare to a direct ingest from HD-SDI (via Cineform) from the G1. Will the A1 HDV image - converted to Cineform intermediate files - hold up to After Effects compositing and assembly in PPro? If I need to go the G1 route, I've got no cost-effective way to capture HD-SDI, so I'm HOPING the A1 HDV footage will hold up well as a Cineform file. I've seen footage from the A1 and it looks beautiful, but I've not seen how it looks after After Effects work. The Colorspace "Indie" looks promising for HD-SDI field capture, but at another $6k why not wait until the XDCAM EX comes out and use the A1 for the next 6-8 months? Thanks! Stuart

May 6th, 2007, 10:37 AM	#2
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I have done comparative test between HDV and HDSDI capture, and both images look similiar, until you compare with the source for reference, the HDV colors are a little off, and there is more data in the HDSDI image. If the image gallery ever comes back on-line, I could point you to them. Check my thread here about PPro3 and cineform, I have some examples begining at the 4th page, using a so-so setup, HDSDI capture with a G1, and still getting a good key in AE. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=91643&page=4 I guess when I get to the studio, time permiting, I could convert one of my HDSDI captures to an m2t then back to cineform and see how it keys then. Hmmm. Also keep in mind that with a G1 you'll need as a minimum, the AJA Xena HS card. For a few bucks more you could spring for the LH which has the analog ports as well. PPro2 and 3 were designed to working the Xena HS card. Cineform will add the additional code needed to work with the LH cards. The other benefit with an AJA card is external monitoring in real time, as there is a buffer/sync delay with Nvidia cards and using overlay to a second PC monitor. The overlay playback also needs to be adjusted for brightness an contrast, which the Nvidia cards provide, and the ATI apparent do not. Just more to think about what you'll get for that extra money. __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

May 6th, 2007, 01:42 PM	#3
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Stuart, one other consideration for you. You could capture from the A1 using a Blackmagic Intensity card which CineForm software supports. The HDMI output from the A1 bypasses MPEG compression (as does HD-SDI) yielding a higher-quality record than going through tape first. If you intend much compositing/effects work, then bypassing MPEG is a good thing....

May 6th, 2007, 03:11 PM	#4
Geoff Dills Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 85	Think you're confusing your A1s...he's talking Canon, not Sony...no HDMI on the Canon

May 6th, 2007, 05:15 PM	#5
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Yep - I was thinking HV20 at the time, not A1 - sorry about that. But...if you want the visual quality of HD-SDI ingest but without the expense, you might at least consider the Sony HVR-V1U. It puts out some very nice pictures, including 24p, and has HDMI. But we don't yet support timeline monitoring using the Blackmagic Intensity card, just ingest using our HDLink software.