Cineform Aspect HD: problems, problems, problems...

[David Newman]

Ron,

That is a shame, as you problem sounds very fixable (anytime you "mosiac" artifact it mean your firewire interface is dropping packets -- time to get a new firewire card.) We do electronic support to increase the number of customers we can help, and we do call customers when needed. Unfortunately we have to limit incoming calls to support as we find we spend a lot of time explaining Premeire and the fundumentals of video editing and not helping customers with real CineForm questions. The online stuff also allowa the support stuff to help when they are not in the office, so it is the best solution for a small company.

[Graham Hickling]

Not trying to be a smart aleck, but I have to say ..... in the past 12 months or so I've used PPro2 and Aspect HD in combination with several HD cameras, on 4 different computer systems running everything from a P4 2.8GHz to a X2 4400+ to an overclocked Core2 6300, with multiple upgrades and de/reactivations and motherboard swops along the way. And I have NEVER had any problem capturing HDV with any of them.

From my perspective, it has been the most stable NLE setup I've used to date.

\unsolicited rant off.

[Floris van Eck]

I am happy that Premiere Pro 2.0 is working for you. I am sure it does work for a lot of people. But I have the impression (because of my searches on multiple forums) that Premiere Pro 2.0 is very unstable. I have been working with Final Cut Pro for years and it rarely crashes. I have spoken with different people, with people in different stores... and many (not all) have problems with PP. I have paid like $1800 for the suite and then you get "Sorry, Premiere Pro has encountered a serious error""). When you look this up in their support documents they let you do everything from trying other firewire cards to installing windows again. My point is that I do not want to spend another 100 hours on troubleshooting. A good program works on almost all computers without any problems. Why does iTunes never crash on me? Why do all Google applications never crash on my three different systems? The only applications that have weird crashes are the Adobe applications. And if they would provide error codes.... so you can search in a specific direction it would have been much easier. So that's the reason why I will most likely switch to Vegas.

And I think many of the Cineform problems also come from Adobe's buggy coding. I am not an expert, but this is just not good. Too many people are experiencing random crashes and freezes.

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

Why does iTunes never crash on me? Why do all Google applications never crash on my three different systems? The only applications that have weird crashes are the Adobe applications. And if they would provide error codes.... so you can search in a specific direction it would have been much easier. So that's the reason why I will most likely switch to Vegas.

And I think many of the Cineform problems also come from Adobe's buggy coding. I am not an expert, but this is just not good. Too many people are experiencing random crashes and freezes.

Trying to compare iTunes and Google to PPro 2, is like trying to compare a model car with a real Ferrari! Just not the same.

I used PPro 2 and CineForm and I am doing fine. I can understand you urge to switch programs, and it may be the best thing for you to do, as you will always feel leary about it even when it is fixed. Peace of mind is a nice thing.

You must remember that with many many thousands, maybe millions, of satisfied owners using PPro 2 and or CineForm, there will always be some who have problems. Some may have ligitimate problems, some have home made computers, thrown together with the "best parts" according to their friends, and some will just refuse to check out the most simple parts when asked, like Firewire cables.

I hope that you get your problem fixed or switch to the program you like. Keep us updated on what you discover. Maybe someday I'll need the information.

Best of luck----Mike

[Floris van Eck]

I think you are absolute right about that. And of course, Premiere Pro is used by more people around the world so more people will encounter problems. But for me, I just tested my whole configuration with multiple programs and Premiere Pro is the one that keeps crashing on me. I know that iTunes is not the same as Premiere Pro... but at the end, when I am rewriting tags to MP3 files both my harddisks and both of my CPUs are taking the full load. With 200GB of music, I think I can say that video editing is not very different (capturing is with the firewire cable and camera involved... but all the "encountered a serious error" messages are when clicking in the timeline, in the menu etcetera. The capture panel is where the program freezes. I really would like to test everything but time does not allow me to. I have been troubleshooting for like 100 hours the last month (Panda Antivirus was causing havoc) and I just want to start working instead of figuring out which card in my pc could interfere with Premiere. I heard that Soundblaster cards are not very good with Premiere. But I do not plan to replace that card only for the benefit of Premiere. So for now, I am going to use Vegas as that application allows me to do exactly what I should at this moment: work.

The good thing is that I can still use the Cineform codec.

[Mike Teutsch]

I believe that I have heard of the Sound Blaster problem! Sure might be worth a try, just borrow one and swap it out for a test.

Good Luck---Mike

[Floris van Eck]

I have two soundcards in my system so I can take the Soundblaster out when I want. But I am not going to rip apart my system for the benefit of Premiere. If this is a known problem, let them solve it. Premiere is the only application that has not received an update since its launch. Do you really believe there have been no bugs since it was released 6 months ago? Adobe is probarbly hard at work on Premiere Pro 3.0 for which I will have to pay $700 again. No, I have made my mind-up and am switching to another program.

[Steven Gotz]

Try Vegas. Spot swears by it, and not at it, I assume.

Although I don't see the point of two sound cards.

And there has never been an upgrade that cost that much for Premiere or Premiere Pro. Perhaps for the entire Production Studio, but no one app.

[Floris van Eck]

I might keep the Production Studio running on my computer as well. There is a lot of demand for it so I already have a few interested people. It's not that I do not want to give it a chance. But for now, I really need to get going so that's the reason why I decided to switch to Vegas. The two soundcards... one is on-board (ADI HD sound on Asus Commando motherboard). I sometimes mix music using Traktor and then you need two soundcards to have real-time monitoring on two channels through your headphone.

But both Adobe and Creative are big brands. They should make sure their products work with each other to keep customers satisfied.

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

But both Adobe and Creative are big brands. They should make sure their products work with each other to keep customers satisfied.

Yup and Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes Benz, Mack truck and Caterpillar ought to get together to make us just one good car we can all use with interchangeable parts!

Well, maybe not Ford! Just kidding! :) :)

Mike

[Floris van Eck]

I agree with you. But a computer is a computer. On the Adobe Production Studio box, Adobe does not mention that it does not work with Creative Soundblaster hardware. It also does not say that any other hardware parts in my computer are incompatible. My system meets the system requirements. So I think it should just work. The car manufactures do not state that their cars can use parts of other cars.... which they might well can. But that is one of the main reasons why man people use mac hardware. I think the best thing to do is to buy certified hardware... at this moment I do not have the money for that. But once my company starts making profits... I will do that. Then both my PC manufacturer as Adobe or any other company guarantee me that it works.

[Dave Campbell]

My soundblaster audigy 2 card has worked fine with Ppro for years.

Dave

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

I agree with you. But a computer is a computer. On the Adobe Production Studio box, Adobe does not mention that it does not work with Creative Soundblaster hardware. It also does not say that any other hardware parts in my computer are incompatible. My system meets the system requirements. So I think it should just work. The car manufactures do not state that their cars can use parts of other cars.... which they might well can. But that is one of the main reasons why man people use mac hardware. I think the best thing to do is to buy certified hardware... at this moment I do not have the money for that. But once my company starts making profits... I will do that. Then both my PC manufacturer as Adobe or any other company guarantee me that it works.

Every manufacturer makes their equipment to their own design and specifications, because they want market share. They want the priority software and short lived patents that go with it. If they don't compete against each other, they die. If they cooperate and just get along and join, someone will innovate them out of business. And, it takes only a very short time.

At Apple, if you are a big fan of theirs, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak (or however it is spelled,) "GAVE" the PC industry to Bill Gates by not allowing others to manufacture their computer equipment and license their software. There might be no PC's at all now and Gates may not be the wealthiest man in the world, if they had not done that! Ditto with Sony and Beta.

The rapid development of all kinds of hardware and software, without regard to others is what has gotten us this far so very fast. If not for that, we may have not gotten much past my old Commodore! Without competition there is just no progress!

Business is not "Can't we all just get along!," and thank God it is not, or we wouldn't have so many of the great things we have now.

I share your frustration, but understand that it is the price of progress. If we don't want progress, then let's just shoot on SD MiniDV, or go back to VCR tapes, and no NLE's. Remember those "Flying head erasers?"

I'll stick with what we have, even with the problems. Well, until something new that is! :)

I'm out of here------Mike

[Christopher Glaeser]

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

But a computer is a computer. On the Adobe Production Studio box, Adobe does not mention that it does not work with Creative Soundblaster hardware. It also does not say that any other hardware parts in my computer are incompatible. My system meets the system requirements. So I think it should just work.

Unfortunately, many configurations don't work well. You mentioned Creative. Check the user forums on their website to find a large number of posts from frustrated users (as just one example, some sound cards are not compatible with some RAID controllers).

Best,
Christopher

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

At Apple, if you are a big fan of theirs, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak (or however it is spelled,) "GAVE" the PC industry to Bill Gates by not allowing others to manufacture their computer equipment and license their software. There might be no PC's at all now and Gates may not be the wealthiest man in the world.

Well Mike, that's kind of true. The 'PC' industry more or less started when IBM announced the PC in the early 80's. They needed an operating system and guess who had just what they were looking for...Bill Gates. He essentially wrote IBM PC DOS. Now IBM, in a radical departure from their normal business practices, actually allowed Bill to sell the same OS under the MS-DOS moniker. After a few years, the PC 'clones' began to show up and since you couldn't buy IBM-DOS without buying one of their systems, the clone makers turned to Microsoft.

But yes, Apple hurt themselves by not allowing anyone to build Apple clones and run their OS on them. The competitive nature of the PC clone industry led to lower costs and wider market acceptance.

However, had IBM not taken the unusual route of allowing Gates to sell the same OS under his own company name, there would have been PC's but Gates wouldn't have amassed a fortune from MS-DOS. IBM's first showing of the PC had a closed architecture where you couldn't install any add-ons, but that didn't fly with consumers who had already been exposed to the Apple, Atari, & Commodore systems where you could plug in expansion boards. So the big, corporate giant had to change their way of thinking in order to play in the fledgling personal computer arena.

It's amazing to see where we've come in the last 26 years.

Just reminiscing,

-gb-