Size of 10 bit CFHD avi file? at DVinfo.net

Dave Campbell · January 4th, 2007, 10:16 AM

Havent had a lot of time to check details, but got a question on avi file sizes using Prospect HD 10 bit.

So, when I read a HDV tape in using 10 bit mode, I think I get files for the avi's about 80 gig per hour or so.

Now, I have a 1:40 hr project. I did a project manager trimmed output from the master Ppro2 project (about 700 gig) and it was about 122gig, which is about what I expected from the above data.

Now, I just did a CFHD avi movie from this project and when I looked this morning, it was only 22gig in size. As I said, I had no time to look at details, but I was expecting a file for the avi to be in the 120 gig size for a 10 bit file.
So, is this a correct expectation? Is there a setting I missed since the file size seems like it is 8 bit.

Will look more tonight, but thought I would gather some data before hand.

Thanks

Dave

David Newman · January 4th, 2007, 11:36 AM

Unless you did an SD export that 22Gig number is too low for 100 minutes of CFHD (that is a DV datarate.)

Dave Campbell · January 5th, 2007, 10:59 AM

David, yep, I messed up but at least the DV output worked!!
I just changed last night to CFHD, it took 13 hours to render the project and NOTHING was written to the disc. While the DV output was rendering, I could see the file grow in size. With CFHD, NOTHING is ever written to the disc during the 13 hours of rendering.

HELP!!!!

Dave

PS:, I did send this update to support.

David Newman · January 5th, 2007, 11:01 AM

Again try a short segment to determine if your encoder is installed. It is what support wil ask you to do.

Dave Campbell · January 5th, 2007, 11:16 AM

I have already done this. If I make a new project, and just grab one clip, it works fine.

Now, I did try the new project route. Meaning, I took that original project that was 1:40 hr, and did project mgmt. I then started a new project with this trimmerd 1:40. I then did the DV output and it worked just fine, even though this was a mistake. I do the CHFD and even though it takes the 13 hours to render, nothing is written to the disc.

So, a single clip new project works. I short work area has not, even though I will have to try this again tonight. I tried on the original and nothing ever worked.

Dave

David Newman · January 5th, 2007, 11:32 AM

There is no logic to that. Help find the logic you will have solved the problem. I.e. it is likely to be a corrupt effect or clip. Exporting the timeline and rendering a non-real-time effect use the same process. Also try rendering to a different disk. Also try importing the project into a new project. We need much more data as there are no bug reports on this, so it is something on your PC.

Dave Campbell · January 5th, 2007, 07:06 PM

This is nuts. I take my project and do 3 seconds, no difference.

I make a new project and pull in one clip, no difference.

I close PPro, open my new project with one clip, and it works. I then open my large project, and it does not work. I then open my small project, and it does not work.

I close PPro and open my new small project and it works. Open large with 3 seconds, nope. Open my small, nope.

So, what does this mean? I have the codec loaded. Something in my large project wipes out CHFD, but Windows DV AVI works fine with it.

Not logical, but I have now done the above may times during the last 2 hours, and its the same.

So, how do I debug my project? I tried both a single clip from the 10 bit avi, and the 10 bit Ultra, and they both work fine as long as I have not loaded and tried the full project. So, this implies the Ultra avi's are fine?

I pulled the large project into another project, and tried 3 second, no change. It renders, but does not write anything to the disc, no matter what disc I try.

So, what else can I try?

Dave

David Newman · January 5th, 2007, 07:15 PM

Will twos clips work? That is next obvious step. I believe anything in a new project will work, as it seems that your project is in some way corrupted. You import a old project into a new one is just like importing media, except you import the .prproj file. Try that. If that doesn't work you could also try turning off the 32-bit float mode (in Playback settings), but we only seen the need for that for very large JPEGs (8MP+.) Otherwise you will need to send that project file to support on Monday so they can try themselves.

Dave Campbell · January 5th, 2007, 07:21 PM

Turned off 32 bit, no change.

So, how would I get you the project? Its 120gig or so in size.
What can I send it on that you can read it?

Dave

David Newman · January 5th, 2007, 07:34 PM

The prproj file, that should only a few MB. Have you tried importing the prproj?

Dave Campbell · January 5th, 2007, 08:03 PM

Yep, I started a new project, imported the project by clicking on the .proj file and it pulled the entire thing in. Put it on the timeline, and put the work area to 3 seconds, it rendered, created the output file, but write nothing into it.

So, how can you use just the project file and see anything? Can I look for something? This is the darnest thing I have ever had to debug.

Again, why if I start PPro, pull in a chip, and it works fine. Open this other file, and it does not work. Then open the one clip file and it does not work.
Now, thats weird.

I just attached the 3.8 meg project file to the trouble ticket

Dave

David Newman · January 5th, 2007, 10:22 PM

There will be other things to try, like exporting to a different disk (do you have enough space?) What export options are you using, (change them) which exporter and your using change that to (try the CineForm Quicktime exporter.) What is your end goal, creating a CineForm AVI Master, or do you intend to convert that to something else?

Dave Campbell · January 6th, 2007, 06:18 AM

I tried to export to a different disc, no change.

I have no problem trying stuff since I love to get to root cause. If its me, great, I eat crow. If its a corner case, it helps others in the future.

It is like the tape that cant be read for scene detect. Will be sending it to you to see if it does the same thing. I fully understand if you cant reproduce, we are both stuck.

I need to produce a DVD for family members as my must goal. I may after try a HD version, but thats after the DVD is done.

I would have not even created an AVI, but in the original project, where I pulled in full 1 hour tapes into the project, I ended up bringing Ppro to its knees. Meaning, I got to the point where loading the project took forever, and it kept telling me I was running low on memory. (I am using a dual, quad xeon system, with 4 gig of memory, FX4500 card. This thing is loaded with the latest HW)

So, after I completed the project, I need to do audio balancing. The best way is to make another sequence 2, put sequence 1 into it, (which gives me a single file), and I then apply the dynamic audio filter on this. This is where I would have dumped my mpeg stuff from, but as I said, Ppro was dying with memory issues.

So, I said, lets make a new CFHD AVI, make a new project, apply my dynamic audio filter, and dump out my Mpeg. (I thought this would be an easy fix.)

So, since I could not get the cfhd avi to work from the master project, I tried the export project manager route, thinking it would take less memory. So, I have to admit, I was impressed it worked since in past versions, it did not.

So now I have a project with much less memory needs since it only has the clips it needs. (Sure loads a lot faster!!) So, I guess I could just try to dump out my Mpeg from this new project, and maybe ignore the CFHD issue, but I hate to let things go without finding root cause. But, will see what happens trying this. I know I will run into the how to I do it correctly issues, but I guess I have to relearn this again some time. :o(

Dave

David Newman · January 6th, 2007, 09:30 AM

Nothing more to suggest although there are still items I have suggested above to try. Write everything you have tried and put it in the support ticket so Jake can look that over when he gets your project on Monday. We don't use the forum to replace support, so he will need the info.

Christopher Glaeser · January 6th, 2007, 04:21 PM

FWIW, it is possible for one asset in a PPro project to cause obscure problems and major headaches. Last year I had generated an audio music clip using SonicFire Pro, and it caused my Premiere Project to crash. I tried re-generating the audio clip, and it caused the same problem. Then, I generated a slightly different version of the audio clip by reducing the time by one second. It worked fine.

I never determined why the first version of the audio clip caused problems; I just moved on. But my point is, it is *possible* for an asset on the timeline to cause problems, and it doesn't even have to be a video asset.

Best,
Christopher

January 4th, 2007, 10:16 AM	#1
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Size of 10 bit CFHD avi file? Havent had a lot of time to check details, but got a question on avi file sizes using Prospect HD 10 bit. So, when I read a HDV tape in using 10 bit mode, I think I get files for the avi's about 80 gig per hour or so. Now, I have a 1:40 hr project. I did a project manager trimmed output from the master Ppro2 project (about 700 gig) and it was about 122gig, which is about what I expected from the above data. Now, I just did a CFHD avi movie from this project and when I looked this morning, it was only 22gig in size. As I said, I had no time to look at details, but I was expecting a file for the avi to be in the 120 gig size for a 10 bit file. So, is this a correct expectation? Is there a setting I missed since the file size seems like it is 8 bit. Will look more tonight, but thought I would gather some data before hand. Thanks Dave

January 4th, 2007, 11:36 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Unless you did an SD export that 22Gig number is too low for 100 minutes of CFHD (that is a DV datarate.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2007, 11:01 AM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Again try a short segment to determine if your encoder is installed. It is what support wil ask you to do. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	There is no logic to that. Help find the logic you will have solved the problem. I.e. it is likely to be a corrupt effect or clip. Exporting the timeline and rendering a non-real-time effect use the same process. Also try rendering to a different disk. Also try importing the project into a new project. We need much more data as there are no bug reports on this, so it is something on your PC. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2007, 07:15 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Will twos clips work? That is next obvious step. I believe anything in a new project will work, as it seems that your project is in some way corrupted. You import a old project into a new one is just like importing media, except you import the .prproj file. Try that. If that doesn't work you could also try turning off the 32-bit float mode (in Playback settings), but we only seen the need for that for very large JPEGs (8MP+.) Otherwise you will need to send that project file to support on Monday so they can try themselves. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2007, 10:59 AM	#3
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	David, yep, I messed up but at least the DV output worked!! I just changed last night to CFHD, it took 13 hours to render the project and NOTHING was written to the disc. While the DV output was rendering, I could see the file grow in size. With CFHD, NOTHING is ever written to the disc during the 13 hours of rendering. HELP!!!! Dave PS:, I did send this update to support.

January 5th, 2007, 11:16 AM	#5
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	I have already done this. If I make a new project, and just grab one clip, it works fine. Now, I did try the new project route. Meaning, I took that original project that was 1:40 hr, and did project mgmt. I then started a new project with this trimmerd 1:40. I then did the DV output and it worked just fine, even though this was a mistake. I do the CHFD and even though it takes the 13 hours to render, nothing is written to the disc. So, a single clip new project works. I short work area has not, even though I will have to try this again tonight. I tried on the original and nothing ever worked. Dave

January 5th, 2007, 07:06 PM	#7
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	This is nuts. I take my project and do 3 seconds, no difference. I make a new project and pull in one clip, no difference. I close PPro, open my new project with one clip, and it works. I then open my large project, and it does not work. I then open my small project, and it does not work. I close PPro and open my new small project and it works. Open large with 3 seconds, nope. Open my small, nope. So, what does this mean? I have the codec loaded. Something in my large project wipes out CHFD, but Windows DV AVI works fine with it. Not logical, but I have now done the above may times during the last 2 hours, and its the same. So, how do I debug my project? I tried both a single clip from the 10 bit avi, and the 10 bit Ultra, and they both work fine as long as I have not loaded and tried the full project. So, this implies the Ultra avi's are fine? I pulled the large project into another project, and tried 3 second, no change. It renders, but does not write anything to the disc, no matter what disc I try. So, what else can I try? Dave

January 5th, 2007, 07:21 PM	#9
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Turned off 32 bit, no change. So, how would I get you the project? Its 120gig or so in size. What can I send it on that you can read it? Dave

January 5th, 2007, 07:34 PM	#10
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The prproj file, that should only a few MB. Have you tried importing the prproj? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2007, 08:03 PM	#11
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Yep, I started a new project, imported the project by clicking on the .proj file and it pulled the entire thing in. Put it on the timeline, and put the work area to 3 seconds, it rendered, created the output file, but write nothing into it. So, how can you use just the project file and see anything? Can I look for something? This is the darnest thing I have ever had to debug. Again, why if I start PPro, pull in a chip, and it works fine. Open this other file, and it does not work. Then open the one clip file and it does not work. Now, thats weird. I just attached the 3.8 meg project file to the trouble ticket Dave

January 5th, 2007, 10:22 PM	#12
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	There will be other things to try, like exporting to a different disk (do you have enough space?) What export options are you using, (change them) which exporter and your using change that to (try the CineForm Quicktime exporter.) What is your end goal, creating a CineForm AVI Master, or do you intend to convert that to something else? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 6th, 2007, 06:18 AM	#13
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	I tried to export to a different disc, no change. I have no problem trying stuff since I love to get to root cause. If its me, great, I eat crow. If its a corner case, it helps others in the future. It is like the tape that cant be read for scene detect. Will be sending it to you to see if it does the same thing. I fully understand if you cant reproduce, we are both stuck. I need to produce a DVD for family members as my must goal. I may after try a HD version, but thats after the DVD is done. I would have not even created an AVI, but in the original project, where I pulled in full 1 hour tapes into the project, I ended up bringing Ppro to its knees. Meaning, I got to the point where loading the project took forever, and it kept telling me I was running low on memory. (I am using a dual, quad xeon system, with 4 gig of memory, FX4500 card. This thing is loaded with the latest HW) So, after I completed the project, I need to do audio balancing. The best way is to make another sequence 2, put sequence 1 into it, (which gives me a single file), and I then apply the dynamic audio filter on this. This is where I would have dumped my mpeg stuff from, but as I said, Ppro was dying with memory issues. So, I said, lets make a new CFHD AVI, make a new project, apply my dynamic audio filter, and dump out my Mpeg. (I thought this would be an easy fix.) So, since I could not get the cfhd avi to work from the master project, I tried the export project manager route, thinking it would take less memory. So, I have to admit, I was impressed it worked since in past versions, it did not. So now I have a project with much less memory needs since it only has the clips it needs. (Sure loads a lot faster!!) So, I guess I could just try to dump out my Mpeg from this new project, and maybe ignore the CFHD issue, but I hate to let things go without finding root cause. But, will see what happens trying this. I know I will run into the how to I do it correctly issues, but I guess I have to relearn this again some time. :o( Dave

January 6th, 2007, 09:30 AM	#14
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Nothing more to suggest although there are still items I have suggested above to try. Write everything you have tried and put it in the support ticket so Jake can look that over when he gets your project on Monday. We don't use the forum to replace support, so he will need the info. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 6th, 2007, 04:21 PM	#15
Christopher Glaeser Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pleasanton, CA Posts: 258	could be an asset on the timeline FWIW, it is possible for one asset in a PPro project to cause obscure problems and major headaches. Last year I had generated an audio music clip using SonicFire Pro, and it caused my Premiere Project to crash. I tried re-generating the audio clip, and it caused the same problem. Then, I generated a slightly different version of the audio clip by reducing the time by one second. It worked fine. I never determined why the first version of the audio clip caused problems; I just moved on. But my point is, it is possible for an asset on the timeline to cause problems, and it doesn't even have to be a video asset. Best, Christopher