David, what is the Cineform MPEG codec? at DVinfo.net

Tip McPartland · October 1st, 2006, 09:12 PM

I just burned a Blu-Ray DVD using the Cineform MPEG codec and the result was outstanding in every way. David, can you explain the nature of this MPEG implementation, particularly I'd like to know the data rate.

By the way, the Sony Blu-Ray burner is great. Easy to use, if recording to "RE" rewritable media it quickly erases and you're off to the races with a new burn. The bundled software is very easy to use, bordering on simplistic, but the result, at least using the Cineform MPEG, is a disc indistinguishale from the Aspect HD timelline.

Tip

David Newman · October 1st, 2006, 09:23 PM

Are you referring to "CineForm M2T" exporter, as we don't have something called "CineForm MPEG"?

Graham Hickling · October 1st, 2006, 11:18 PM

For 720P, the data rate is the HDV1 standard: 18300kbps

Don't recall the 1080i rate offhand, sorry.

Tip McPartland · October 2nd, 2006, 12:18 AM

Yeah, it was m2t format, so that's just something to return the intermediates to native HDV then.

Richard Leadbetter · October 2nd, 2006, 01:47 AM

Hi Tip,

Can you describe the authoring process you used once you had the M2T? What authoring software did you use? Did you burn to DVD-R or rewritable BD?

Are you playing back on the computer or on a standalone Blu-Ray machine? The reason I ask is that nobody appears to have got 'homebrew' disks working on the existing Samsung player.

Tip McPartland · October 3rd, 2006, 05:28 PM

I used the bundled Cyber software. I played it back on the burner -- don't have a Samsung and dont plan on getting one. But now you have my curiosity ias to what issues there might be with playback on other hardware. I'm getting a PS3 and will use that for my personal playback, maybe even drag it along for pitch meetings! But to do that, it would have to play the discs I burn, so who has tried this themselves and what happened?

Tip

Don Blish · October 5th, 2006, 12:35 PM

I described my experience here with that Sony BWU-100A burner and Cyberlink software:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=75505

I went directly from the Cineform .avi to "Power Producer for Blu-Ray". I couldn't get that software to take the .m2t file at all. Note that the disc played fine on the bundled player (Power DVD for Blu-Ray) but would not play at all on a retailer's (early model) Samsung BDP1000.

I'll see if it plays when I get my Sony BDP-S1 in three weeks.

Graham Hickling · October 5th, 2006, 01:02 PM

Don, The .m2t file is a 'transport stream'. The same mpeg data can be losslessly repackaged as a mpeg 'program stream' .mpg.

I've found that some software that won't accept transport streams will accept program streams. ... you should be able to convert between the two using remuxTS available here: http://www.yamabe.org/softbody.html

Just a suggestion, I'm not saying it will necessarily solve the problem ...

Don Blish · October 5th, 2006, 02:31 PM

The idea of archiving the .m2t instead of the bulky .avi is appealing. I got ReMux_TS from the link above. The readme is in Japanese so not tooo helpful. On running it:

1) I can enter an input file but the output filename box is blank ... I really dont want to over write this file. How can I specify another?

2) How did you use the two check boxes "LPCM/AC3" and "full"

Graham Hickling · October 5th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Don, I am not aware of a way to change the output filename in remuxTS.

However, bottom left you can set the output folder that the remuxed file will be sent to - so provided that's somewhere other than where your source file is located nothing will get overwritten.

I assume the LPCM/AC3 checkbock is used when the audio in the source file is in wav format (PCM) or Dolby Digital (AC3). These aren't part of the HDV specs, so I have never had any reason to use that option with my camera footage.

"Full" ... sorry I have no idea! I've never used it, and that never seemed to matter.

Another program that does useful remux-type things is MPEG_Streamclip. I have not used that, but some other people on this forum mention it occasionally. I mention it because it's in English rather than Japanese.

Don Blish · October 5th, 2006, 07:59 PM

Thanks!

That demux program took my 19.1gig .m2t file and made an 18.6gig mpg file that DID successfully import into Cyberlink PowerProducer for BluRay. The resulting disc burned in under 50 minutes for a 99 minute project.

One thing I noticed (both from .avi and .mpg) is that any clipping is poorly handled by Cyberlink PowerDVD 6.6 BD. I have sinced fixed the clips, but have kept an affected copy to try on my Sony BDP-S1 comming soon.

October 1st, 2006, 09:12 PM	#1
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	David, what is the Cineform MPEG codec? I just burned a Blu-Ray DVD using the Cineform MPEG codec and the result was outstanding in every way. David, can you explain the nature of this MPEG implementation, particularly I'd like to know the data rate. By the way, the Sony Blu-Ray burner is great. Easy to use, if recording to "RE" rewritable media it quickly erases and you're off to the races with a new burn. The bundled software is very easy to use, bordering on simplistic, but the result, at least using the Cineform MPEG, is a disc indistinguishale from the Aspect HD timelline. Tip

October 1st, 2006, 09:23 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Are you referring to "CineForm M2T" exporter, as we don't have something called "CineForm MPEG"? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 2nd, 2006, 01:47 AM	#5
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Hi Tip, Can you describe the authoring process you used once you had the M2T? What authoring software did you use? Did you burn to DVD-R or rewritable BD? Are you playing back on the computer or on a standalone Blu-Ray machine? The reason I ask is that nobody appears to have got 'homebrew' disks working on the existing Samsung player. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer Last edited by Richard Leadbetter; October 2nd, 2006 at 03:12 AM.

October 3rd, 2006, 05:28 PM	#6
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Haven't tried the Samsung... I used the bundled Cyber software. I played it back on the burner -- don't have a Samsung and dont plan on getting one. But now you have my curiosity ias to what issues there might be with playback on other hardware. I'm getting a PS3 and will use that for my personal playback, maybe even drag it along for pitch meetings! But to do that, it would have to play the discs I burn, so who has tried this themselves and what happened? Tip

October 5th, 2006, 12:35 PM	#7
Don Blish Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Portland OR Posts: 227	Cyberlink, Cineform, Samsung etc I described my experience here with that Sony BWU-100A burner and Cyberlink software: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=75505 I went directly from the Cineform .avi to "Power Producer for Blu-Ray". I couldn't get that software to take the .m2t file at all. Note that the disc played fine on the bundled player (Power DVD for Blu-Ray) but would not play at all on a retailer's (early model) Samsung BDP1000. I'll see if it plays when I get my Sony BDP-S1 in three weeks.

October 1st, 2006, 11:18 PM	#3
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	For 720P, the data rate is the HDV1 standard: 18300kbps Don't recall the 1080i rate offhand, sorry.

October 2nd, 2006, 12:18 AM	#4
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Yeah, it was m2t format, so that's just something to return the intermediates to native HDV then.

October 5th, 2006, 01:02 PM	#8
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Don, The .m2t file is a 'transport stream'. The same mpeg data can be losslessly repackaged as a mpeg 'program stream' .mpg. I've found that some software that won't accept transport streams will accept program streams. ... you should be able to convert between the two using remuxTS available here: http://www.yamabe.org/softbody.html Just a suggestion, I'm not saying it will necessarily solve the problem ...

October 5th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#9
Don Blish Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Portland OR Posts: 227	Using ReMux TS The idea of archiving the .m2t instead of the bulky .avi is appealing. I got ReMux_TS from the link above. The readme is in Japanese so not tooo helpful. On running it: 1) I can enter an input file but the output filename box is blank ... I really dont want to over write this file. How can I specify another? 2) How did you use the two check boxes "LPCM/AC3" and "full"

October 5th, 2006, 04:21 PM	#10
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Don, I am not aware of a way to change the output filename in remuxTS. However, bottom left you can set the output folder that the remuxed file will be sent to - so provided that's somewhere other than where your source file is located nothing will get overwritten. I assume the LPCM/AC3 checkbock is used when the audio in the source file is in wav format (PCM) or Dolby Digital (AC3). These aren't part of the HDV specs, so I have never had any reason to use that option with my camera footage. "Full" ... sorry I have no idea! I've never used it, and that never seemed to matter. Another program that does useful remux-type things is MPEG_Streamclip. I have not used that, but some other people on this forum mention it occasionally. I mention it because it's in English rather than Japanese.

October 5th, 2006, 07:59 PM	#11
Don Blish Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Portland OR Posts: 227	Success: Demuxed mpg into Cyberlink PowerProducer for Blu-Ray Thanks! That demux program took my 19.1gig .m2t file and made an 18.6gig mpg file that DID successfully import into Cyberlink PowerProducer for BluRay. The resulting disc burned in under 50 minutes for a 99 minute project. One thing I noticed (both from .avi and .mpg) is that any clipping is poorly handled by Cyberlink PowerDVD 6.6 BD. I have sinced fixed the clips, but have kept an affected copy to try on my Sony BDP-S1 comming soon.