Does CineForm Plan Decklink Support in the Future? at DVinfo.net

David Ziegelheim · August 2nd, 2006, 11:09 PM

This is really a cost related question, as the Decklink HD card is $800-900 less than the AJA XENA LHe card. Could the Decklink card be used to capture to disk than PropectHD Edit be used for conversion? If so, what functionality would be lost, if any?

Thanks,

David

David Newman · August 2nd, 2006, 11:36 PM

When you compare features there isn't such a cost difference, price a BM card with analog and HDSDI I/O. It would certainly cost you more to capture uncompressed BM then convert. Costs are disk space, disk speed, and your time.

That all said we would like to support more cards, yet time isn't permitting at the moment.

David Ziegelheim · August 2nd, 2006, 11:50 PM

The HD Extreme is $995 or less. The LHe is $1795. What feature is the HD Extreme missing? Links are http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/ and http://www.aja.com/html/products_windows_xena_LHe.html

It is my understanding that neither the HD100/110/200 nor the HVX200 support HD-SDI.

Wouldn't saving to a file and then converting also save $1500 on the ProspectHD software (editing vs injest/editing versions)?

Richard Leadbetter · August 3rd, 2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim

The HD Extreme is $995 or less. The LHe is $1795. What feature is the HD Extreme missing?

Analogue component input that supports HD resolutions? It's SD only isn't it?

David Ziegelheim · August 3rd, 2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Now you can afford the incredible quality of high definition, at a standard definition price. DeckLink HD Extreme supports the highest quality 10 bit SDI video, and 14 bit analog video, while instantly switching between HD and SD. Connect to any deck, camera or monitor for only US$995
High Definition or Standard Definition

DeckLink HD Extreme help make the move to high definition affordable while still retaining compatibility with your current standard definition equipment. DeckLink HD Extreme lets you instantly switches between high definition and standard definition SDI and analog component video connections. Connect to 270 Mbps standard definition SDI equipment such as Digital Betacam™, as well as 1.485 Gbps HD-SDI equipment such as HDCAM or HD-D5 all using the same card. Also connect to standard definition analog equipment such as Betacam SP decks, or high definition HDV cameras and component monitors.

It seems to support both. Specs for both list 10-bit SD/HD capture and 12-bit analog component capture. Both have similar audio I/O. Both have two SDI outputs and one analog output. They even look similar.

However one costs $1795 and the other costs $995.

David Newman · August 3rd, 2006, 09:32 AM

One works with Prospect HD and one doesn't, that has got to be worth something. ;) I was not aware BM had HD conponent inputs -- is that even clear from there specs?

David Ziegelheim · August 3rd, 2006, 09:53 AM

It might be new this year. I'm just trying to figure out the 'right' setup to get the best images at the best price.

Doesn't the HD100/110/200 and HVX200 only support analog component output? That only the XL-H1, HD250, and XH-G1 support HD-SDI? Do the others--Z1/FX1, A1/HC1/HC3, A1, and HV10--support HD component out?

If so, than for most cameras (prosumer models on the forum) the analog input is the key.

So I guess I was trying to see if Cineform is planning to support the BlackMagic, maybe shaving upto $800 off the price of an injest system. Or if a viable alternative existed for capturing with the card and avoiding the $1500 cost of the injest upgrade.

Christopher Glaeser · August 3rd, 2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim

So I guess I was trying to see if Cineform is planning to support the BlackMagic,

It is my understanding there are technical reasons why the BM cards are not supported. Seach this Cineform forum on Blackmagic for additinal details.

Best,
Christopher

David Newman · August 3rd, 2006, 12:10 PM

There are technical reason that makes the integration non-trival. As we already have a excellent HDSDI solution we have to focus on other developments. i.e. Decklink support is a long way off for Prospect HD.

Richard Leadbetter · August 3rd, 2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim

It seems to support both. Specs for both list 10-bit SD/HD capture and 12-bit analog component capture. Both have similar audio I/O. Both have two SDI outputs and one analog output. They even look similar.

However one costs $1795 and the other costs $995.

I'd like to see it in writing that Decklink Extreme supports HD analogue component input. Certainly the specs sheet on the website indicates otherwise:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmagic Website

12 bit YUV/NTSC/PAL/S-Video switchable to NTSC/PAL/S-Video in SD mode

No mention of HD at all...? Yet the SDI inputs do include details of 720p and 1080p capture...

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/specs/

Richard Leadbetter · September 28th, 2006, 09:35 AM

Just a bump to this topic. Decklink *can* capture HD analogue component. Today, I was sent some shots of some Xbox 360 720p footage and the quality was bloody dreadful.

Definitely 720p but colour reproduction was absolutely dire and it doesn't appear to be resolving the full resolution - it looks extremely blurred to me. I'd've thought that as 720p component is a standard so no special calibration would be required and there was nothing wrong with cables being used.

The only explanation I can come up with is either a) it's just not very good, or else b) my contact was capturing into a really, really bad codec. But this looks so bad, even DVCPRO-HD's resolution loss cannot account for the blur I am witnessing here.

I'm trying to source the same game so I can do some like-for-like shots for you guys to pore over. I have to admit that I was considering a Decklink HD Extreme for analogue component and SDI capture with the new Decklink Intensity to support HDMI. I think that I'll just get the Intensity for now and go for Xena LHe later on.

August 2nd, 2006, 11:09 PM	#1
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	Does CineForm Plan Decklink Support in the Future? This is really a cost related question, as the Decklink HD card is $800-900 less than the AJA XENA LHe card. Could the Decklink card be used to capture to disk than PropectHD Edit be used for conversion? If so, what functionality would be lost, if any? Thanks, David

August 2nd, 2006, 11:36 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	When you compare features there isn't such a cost difference, price a BM card with analog and HDSDI I/O. It would certainly cost you more to capture uncompressed BM then convert. Costs are disk space, disk speed, and your time. That all said we would like to support more cards, yet time isn't permitting at the moment. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 3rd, 2006, 09:32 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	One works with Prospect HD and one doesn't, that has got to be worth something. ;) I was not aware BM had HD conponent inputs -- is that even clear from there specs? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 3rd, 2006, 12:10 PM	#9
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	There are technical reason that makes the integration non-trival. As we already have a excellent HDSDI solution we have to focus on other developments. i.e. Decklink support is a long way off for Prospect HD. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 2nd, 2006, 11:50 PM	#3
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	The HD Extreme is $995 or less. The LHe is $1795. What feature is the HD Extreme missing? Links are http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/ and http://www.aja.com/html/products_windows_xena_LHe.html It is my understanding that neither the HD100/110/200 nor the HVX200 support HD-SDI. Wouldn't saving to a file and then converting also save $1500 on the ProspectHD software (editing vs injest/editing versions)?

August 3rd, 2006, 09:53 AM	#7
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	It might be new this year. I'm just trying to figure out the 'right' setup to get the best images at the best price. Doesn't the HD100/110/200 and HVX200 only support analog component output? That only the XL-H1, HD250, and XH-G1 support HD-SDI? Do the others--Z1/FX1, A1/HC1/HC3, A1, and HV10--support HD component out? If so, than for most cameras (prosumer models on the forum) the analog input is the key. So I guess I was trying to see if Cineform is planning to support the BlackMagic, maybe shaving upto $800 off the price of an injest system. Or if a viable alternative existed for capturing with the card and avoiding the $1500 cost of the injest upgrade.

September 28th, 2006, 09:35 AM	#11
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Just a bump to this topic. Decklink can capture HD analogue component. Today, I was sent some shots of some Xbox 360 720p footage and the quality was bloody dreadful. Definitely 720p but colour reproduction was absolutely dire and it doesn't appear to be resolving the full resolution - it looks extremely blurred to me. I'd've thought that as 720p component is a standard so no special calibration would be required and there was nothing wrong with cables being used. The only explanation I can come up with is either a) it's just not very good, or else b) my contact was capturing into a really, really bad codec. But this looks so bad, even DVCPRO-HD's resolution loss cannot account for the blur I am witnessing here. I'm trying to source the same game so I can do some like-for-like shots for you guys to pore over. I have to admit that I was considering a Decklink HD Extreme for analogue component and SDI capture with the new Decklink Intensity to support HDMI. I think that I'll just get the Intensity for now and go for Xena LHe later on.