1080i -> SD MPEG2 in PPro v2

[Alan Mills]

I know it's been discussed almost to death for Ppro 1.5.1 and how to get the best SD DVD image out of your Cineform 1080i projects and the AME bug reversing the fields but what is the official word on using PPro v2?

Does the bug still exist?

I've been doing a few tests...
1080i timeline exporting through AME lower field first, upper field first and then export SD movie and run that through the AME and all three seem to produce similar looking results when watched through Windows Media Player and the video overlay sent to my 'preview CRT TV'. The movement i quite jagged. Is this not a good route to preview?

I'm trying to avoid building an actual DVD disk to go and play it downstairs for each 10 second clip I'm trying.

So, what is the definitive statement on HDV 1080i to SD MPEG2 for DVD creation (PAL) for PPro2?

[Paul Kepen]

Alan, I just started experimenting as well, and I'm very disappointed that my beautiful HDV come out on DVD looking much fuzzier and far less sharp then my SD DV footage. I captured with Cinneform Aspect thru the Adobe plugin. Clips look great while editing with project set at 1080i/29.970. Then when I made a DVD it wrongly did bottom field first ( i knew sd dv was bottom, and I kinda thought I read hdv was top field first, but I wasn't sure-until I saw the results). Next I tried progressive - since at 1080i - even if it de-interlaced by skipping every other line, I'd still have enough res for 480/540 lines of DVD resolution. Well, I still get the jaggy stair steps-not quite as bad-but worse then with SD DV and agin terribly blurry-fuzzy picture. Colors look good though:). So is this the wrong work flow? does anyone have a link to Thread on the best setup for HDV to SD DVD? My camera was the Sony HC-1 and it was all shot at 60i, no Sony Cinframe. Thanks - PK

[David Newman]

Please get Aspect HD 4.1.1 first, it is always best to keep current. If you are doing interlaced 1080 to interlaced 480 that can be tricker to do well, whereas progressive to progressive is the easiest. First thing is to verifiy that all you footage is encoded as interlaced and not progressive, use properties within Premiere -- the line that says YUV422 will say "progressive" if it is. If you file that are flagged as progressive (but or otherwise interlaced) there is a difference workaround for quality DVD outputs. Otherwsie the instructions here are still a good method http://www.cineform.com/products/FAQ.htm#Aspect8

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Paul Kepen

Alan, I just started experimenting as well, and I'm very disappointed that my beautiful HDV come out on DVD looking much fuzzier and far less sharp then my SD DV footage. I captured with Cinneform Aspect thru the Adobe plugin. Clips look great while editing with project set at 1080i/29.970. Then when I made a DVD it wrongly did bottom field first ( i knew sd dv was bottom, and I kinda thought I read hdv was top field first, but I wasn't sure-until I saw the results). Next I tried progressive - since at 1080i - even if it de-interlaced by skipping every other line, I'd still have enough res for 480/540 lines of DVD resolution. Well, I still get the jaggy stair steps-not quite as bad-but worse then with SD DV and agin terribly blurry-fuzzy picture. Colors look good though:). So is this the wrong work flow? does anyone have a link to Thread on the best setup for HDV to SD DVD? My camera was the Sony HC-1 and it was all shot at 60i, no Sony Cinframe. Thanks - PK

I actually have always outputted my final film to SD DV before I convert to a DVD project. In otherwords, I do an intermediate render to the SD before converting it to DVD. Try that on a small scale first to see if you have a different story.

[David Newman]

Chris, we recommend using CFHD for the same purpose. The problem using DV is it a 4:1:1 colorspace which clashes with the DVD 4:2:0, resulting in 4:1:0 effective color resolution. Your DVD of 720x480 will only have 180x240 worth of chroma vs the maximum 360x240 chroma signal. CineForm AVI are always 4:2:2, so they available this problem.

[Paul Kepen]

Originally Posted by David Newman

Please get Aspect HD 4.1.1 first, it is always best to keep current. If you are doing interlaced 1080 to interlaced 480 that can be tricker to do well, whereas progressive to progressive is the easiest. First thing is to verifiy that all you footage is encoded as interlaced and not progressive, use properties within Premiere -- the line that says YUV422 will say "progressive" if it is. If you file that are flagged as progressive (but or otherwise interlaced) there is a difference workaround for quality DVD outputs. Otherwsie the instructions here are still a good method http://www.cineform.com/products/FAQ.htm#Aspect8

David, Where in PPro 1.5.1 is the "properties" that you are referring to? If I click File and come down to properties, I don't get the options you refer to. I tried clicking else where, but never found the "YUV442."

As Always, thanks for your knowledgeable help!

[Paul Kepen]

Yes, I have downloaded the upgrade to 4.1.1, but I have not installed it yet-hopefully this weeken. The files I'm working (experimenting with) have already been converted with Aspect 4.0. I'm trying the procedure from the link that David left to the Cineform FAQ page at this time. Hopefully we'll all be getting BlueRay burners soon, and won't have to do this extra render (and will get our full HD glory!!)

[Paul Kepen]

I use both Premiere and Vegas, I assume the correct procecdure in Vegas to go from HDV to DVD would be similar with the after edit Cineform conversion to an AVI file before burning to DVD. Are there any special/unique steps when using Vegas that I should be aware of? (I did read the entire FAQ at Cineform - but I didn't see much about this with Vegas) Thanks - PK

[Alan Mills]

Last evening (I'm a home users you see) I upgraded to the latest version 4.1.1.

The project I was using as my test case is a project that was editted using AspectHD v3.x using Premiere pro 1.5.1. I've now upgraded to Ppro v2 (Production Studio actually).

So the clips being used were captured using an older version of AspectHD. Will this make any difference to the standard export workflow or effect the final quality?

David, I'm familiar with the FAQ link you posted but thanks.

I was really wondering whether there is any news on the AME issue having actually been fixed in PPro2 or not or whether this 'workaround' is still actually needed.

Also, I wonder if my preview method (video overlay from Windows Media Player sent to CRT TV) is representative of what I'll see from my final DVD playing on a set top box.

[David Newman]

I do believe the AME is a lot better, and it may do the trick for direct DVD encoding now. However, you do need to check the progressive vs interlace status of your clips, because that can mess things up.

Paul, the properties panel : right click on the clip and select "Properties".

[Patricia Lamm]

Originally Posted by David Newman

I do believe the AME is a lot better, and it may do the trick for direct DVD encoding now. However, you do need to check the progressive vs interlace status of your clips, because that can mess things up.

Paul, the properties panel : right click on the clip and select "Properties".

I'm now confused. When I start a Aspect HD project (1440x1080, 60i) and capture using CineformHD capture with default settings, the resulting YUV422 line is flagged as "progressive". Did I capture correctly or not?

Also, are the instructions http://www.cineform.com/products/FAQ.htm#Aspect8
for the file as I've captured it or for when the YUV422 line is flagged as "interlaced".

I have had good success with the method on the cineform.com FAQ page until now. Previously all my video was captured in PP1.5 and then edited and exported (using the FAQ instructions) using PP2.0. Now that I am both capturing and editing in PP2.0, things don't work as well. The resulting 720x480 DV file (created using the FAQ instructions) is wavy -- not jumpy, as if the interlacing was wrong, but wavy. Is this related to the fact that my YUV422 line is flagged as "progressive"?

[David Newman]

Patricia,

We asking poeple to look for the progressive flag as a preset in a pervious build set the default to progressive, even for some interlaced projects -- we didn't know if anyone in the field had experienced this. Fortunately there is a simple workaround -- we had even planned for this senerio 6 months ago when we added the Sony CineFrame support (we imagined cases where interlace and progressive processing could be mixed.) For all this there are registry control to override a progressively flags file. With Aspect HD 4.1.1 installed and Premiere NOT running, download (http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Fo...cedControl.zip) and run the ForceInterlaced.reg file. Now you export will be fine. If you ever do a progressive project you will want to try this control off (although the output will still be pretty good with it on.)

This is all about the process of scaling an HD to SD image. Progressive processing all the source scan line can be used -- beautiful oversampling -- whereas interlace source files require every second scanline to be used. Aspect HD realizes that progressive files can be used in interlaced progressive, so we use the best scaler for the source type -- for the highest quality.

[Patricia Lamm]

Thanks, David. So if I'm understanding you, this will fix the export of my incorrectly flagged clip. Or do I need to recapture the clip for best results?

[David Newman]

You don't need to recapture for the best results -- this little registry switch prevents that need.

[Alan Mills]

I have to confess that I've got completely lost with this thread and need some help and guidance I think on solving this. I have faith that the help offered is corect but it's just gone a little over my head I'm afraid.

My problem is as folllows:

Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5.1, Aspect HD 3.x project using the Cineform 1080i preset (PAL).
Footage captured from my FX1E in HDlink using default settings (I think).
Project editted together and exported using themethod in the FAQ as supplied.
As it happens I've now upgraded to Productions studio so export is being performed in Premiere Pro 2 and AspectHD4.1.1.
The resulting AVI file is imported as an asset into Encore 2 and a DVD produced.
The image is all juddery. There's no 'combing' looking like an interlace problem. If I slow the DVD player down to fraction speed I get individual clear/clean images but playing at niormal speed the thing is all juddery and looks awful.
Previewing the expored AVI in Windows Media Player wiht teh video overlay sent to a local 4:3 CRT TV looks fine.

I thought I'd done things right but I must be missing something somewhere.

If I rightclick on my AVI asset in the Premier project and select Properties the only line that has the term 'YUV422' in it reads
"uncompressed video format is 8 bit YUV422".
so where will I find the YUV422 being flagged at progressive or otherwise?

And onto the "We asking poeple to look for the progressive flag as a preset in a pervious build set the default to progressive, even for some interlaced projects " statement. What does this mean? Where is this 'progressive flag'? Is this referring to the HDLink settings? How can I tell if my captures are de-interlaced or not or does this not matter to the problem.

And lastly, I've downloaded the registry updates but not understanding what they might achieve for me I've hesitated to load them as yet. Should I? Can you please understand the background behind them a little further.

As you can see, I'm curently a little out of depths with this thread and as I started it can I please ask if the explanation go back a little more towards first principals so I can leanr what this all means.

I hope this all makes sense cos I clearly need to getmy head around this.

regards

Alan