Aspect 4.0/PPro 2.0 Compiler Problem at DVinfo.net

Robert Young · February 2nd, 2006, 01:21 AM

I have just installed PPro 2 and Aspect 4.0. I have a 7 min timeline in PPro 2 consisting of 25 captured Sony HDV test clips, on the timeline as CFHD. Timeline plays and scrubs normally (the image quality is breathtaking), nothing to be rendered, no layers, effects, etc.
Following Cineform's workflow instructions to produce SD DVD from HDV CFHD project, I Export timeline to Movie with settings set for CFHD 720x480, PAR 1.2, Lower Field First. About half way thru the export I get a "compiler error" "cause unknown" and the render stops. I have tried the Export with the Cineframe compiler quality setting at medium instead of high-- same result. When I look at the partial length clips that are produced, the quality is terrible with huge interlace looking lines and jaggies-particularly in the upper 1/3 of the frame-- as well as oblique artifacts, and areas of drop out
I've done a lot of fairly complex one hour projects in PPro 1.51 Production Bundle SDV on this system and never had an export/transcode/render problem. I have uninstalled/reinstalled Aspect with no improvement.
If anyone has some ideas, I would be extemely grateful.
Bob

Michael Stewart · February 2nd, 2006, 10:33 AM

Hi Robert, check each parameter carefully I noticed sometimes (in at least ppro 1.5 that the pixel ratios stayed at 1440x1080 or defaulted to 24 frames per second, anyway, try exporting progressive (no fields) to see if that works.

Mike

Robert Young · February 2nd, 2006, 01:51 PM

Mike
Thanks for the reply. The parameters seem OK. I haven't tried deinterlacing yet. What I am finding is that Aspect is unable to render anything off of the timeline correctly. For example, I capture HDV clips into a Cineform 1080 60i project. Everything plays and scrubs perfectly. If I just Export Movie to 1080 60i CFHD-- no change in size, field order, etc-- the compiler fails at some point during the render and the resulting partial clip produced looks terrible, the same artifacts as described.
This should be a no brainer. I have a robust system, PPro 2.0 should be fine, and Aspect 4.0 should just install and work as advertised. I have followed these threads for months prior to jumping into HDV. Most of the discussion is about how to make Aspect work "better", not how to make it work at all.
If anyone out there has had a similar experience, I would love to hear from you.
Thanks
Bob

Richard Leadbetter · February 2nd, 2006, 02:02 PM

Robert - are you using the full Premiere Pro or the try-out? The reason I ask is that I had similar issues with the try-out myself.

I've not yet bought 2.0 but suspect this could well be the problem.

Robert Young · February 2nd, 2006, 02:55 PM

Richard
I am using the full version of the complete 2.0 Production Studio.
Bob

Michael Stewart · February 2nd, 2006, 03:05 PM

Robert try bringing the project into after effects and exporting from there, also, try using the windows avi export with the cineform codec. Also can you describe exactly what your project consists of (transitions (PPro or Cineform) exactly what you have. How many tracks are you using, is it on the first track? 2? 3? every detail if you can.

MIke

Michael Stewart · February 2nd, 2006, 03:10 PM

Just for fun, and you get desperate, try using the project on the tryout version of PPro2.

mike

Richard Leadbetter · February 2nd, 2006, 03:56 PM

My own experience was multicoloured horizontal lines of 'interference' along the top of the video and grey wavey lines through the rest of the image. Short exports had this distortion and long exports would come up with compilation errors and wouldn't open at all.

This was on a 1280x720, 59.94fps project, so a bit more extreme than the usual Aspect HD usage... However, exporting into a huffyuv-compressed Microsoft AVI was no problem whatsoever.

However, I have conferred with CineForm Tech Support and they seem to indicate that it's the fault of me using the try-out. That said, the compilation issues sound a bit similar.

Stupid question time: have you re-installed Aspect HD again to see what happens?

Robert Young · February 2nd, 2006, 06:01 PM

I have uninstalled/reinstalled Aspect with no improvement.

Michael: My timeline is 7 min of 25 Sony HDV clips in CFHD 1080 60i .avi. No layers, transitions, effects, etc. This was just a "shake down" test project to examine how Aspect works and to investigate the workflow from HDV to SD DVD output.

A number of people have made suggestions to me regarding work-around solutions to this problem of the Aspect compiler not working. For me this raises the question: Isn't the Aspect software package supposed to work as advertised?? After all, I am following the HDV>>SD DVD workflow exactly as Cineform has recommended. Is it the common experience that Aspect is supposed to do A, B, and C, but it really doesn't, and that it is necessary to use other software to get HDV CFHD off of your timeline and into a deliverable format? Maybe my expections are not realistic.
Bob

Michael Stewart · February 2nd, 2006, 09:10 PM

Hi Robert, I would lean more toward the fact that if you do a work around it is in order to help locate your specific problem (meaning, the more knowns, the easier to figure out unknowns) try to get it to work then figure why it does not work the other ways. It usually if not almost always is something on my end when stuff goes wrong. Did you try the things I mentioned? How about going back to prem pro1.5 see if it still works.

Mike

Robert Young · February 2nd, 2006, 09:29 PM

Mike: I understand your logic.
I'll try your suggestions tonite and see if I make any headway. I have a Cineform ticket in as well. They just collected my Sys Info File, so maybe they will discover a straightfoward fix.
More in due course.
Many Thanks

Robert Young · February 3rd, 2006, 01:54 AM

Mike
FYI I found that if I use PPro Field Options to deinterlace each 1080 CFHD clip I can export to 480 CFHD (only in short segments to avoid compiler failure), put it in Encore and make a DVD. The Cineform compiler does not like any kind of interlace issues at all, on my system anyway. Also, I can export the 1080 Aspect project into AE and render it out using Microsoft .avi. There were some other approaches I used with modest results. Unfortunately, none of these workflow solutions has produced great video. I transcoded all of the various 480 output to m2v and played the DVD on a Sony 42" HDV TV with progressive scan, component input. Hands down, the best looking, highest resolution, most artifact free images was the footage shot in HDV and captured in SDV with Sony camera downconversion. And it looked way better than any DVD output I've ever obtained with my PD 170s.
So, I still don't know if there is something wrong with my system, or my software, or if this is just the way it is in the leading edge world of HDV at this point in time. A tinkerer's paradise, as opposed to a simple, efficient workflow. We'll see. Maybe my Cineform ticket will turn up something relevatory. But for now I'll probably use in camera conversion and regret that I spent the $500 on Aspect. My typical projects involve 120,000 frames, layers, effects, stills, titles, AE motion graphics, and so on. I can't imagine having to hand tweak, massage, import back and forth every single element of one of these projects. I don't think I would have the time.
I did go back to PPro 1.51. It still works fine with the Matrox RT100X card and software, but I had never tried to do HDV on it.
So, call me discouraged.
Bob

Michael Stewart · February 3rd, 2006, 09:37 AM

aaaaaaaah, you have never used cineform until recently meaning with PPro version 2.0 not 1.5? And there is a Matrox 100 in your system !!? I would call that your problem, I would bet (Pinnacle and Matrox are natorious for being real picky on what you do with/to them. This is probably a good example of stating a persons setup first, I would have steared you toward that reason, if you can, try a clean install without the matrox card, I would bet money it will work, do PPro 1.5 first to get a known good point, yep it is the matrox card does not like it (or the matrox software), give it a try. At least to find out if that is the problem.

Mike

Peter Ferling · February 3rd, 2006, 11:24 AM

I would do a simple test first. I would open a new project that is not handled by the matrox card or matrox card preset and render a test clip of sufficient length to repeat the error. You could also try and disable the maxtrox card in the control panel and try again on fresh premiere 2.0 project. That would be a quick check.

Pete

Robert Young · February 3rd, 2006, 12:08 PM

Just to be clear about my set up:
I have PPro 1.51 with the Matrox card and software installed as a plug in to PPro 1.51 only. I have never used Cineform with this set up.
I have recently installed full version PPro 2.0, with no Matrox plug in. Aspect 4.0 is installed and being used with PPro 2.0 only.
So the compiler error, failure to render type errors I am getting are with PPro 2.0/Aspect 4.0 configuration. This config has no Matrox card/software association. In fact, my prior PPro 1.5/Matrox projects will not even load up in PPro 2.0. That's why I left the old 1.5/Matrox on the system.
So, is it possible that the Matrox software/card can be screwing up PPro 2.0 /Aspect even tho Matrox not installed to that software??
Bob

February 2nd, 2006, 01:21 AM	#1
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Aspect 4.0/PPro 2.0 Compiler Problem I have just installed PPro 2 and Aspect 4.0. I have a 7 min timeline in PPro 2 consisting of 25 captured Sony HDV test clips, on the timeline as CFHD. Timeline plays and scrubs normally (the image quality is breathtaking), nothing to be rendered, no layers, effects, etc. Following Cineform's workflow instructions to produce SD DVD from HDV CFHD project, I Export timeline to Movie with settings set for CFHD 720x480, PAR 1.2, Lower Field First. About half way thru the export I get a "compiler error" "cause unknown" and the render stops. I have tried the Export with the Cineframe compiler quality setting at medium instead of high-- same result. When I look at the partial length clips that are produced, the quality is terrible with huge interlace looking lines and jaggies-particularly in the upper 1/3 of the frame-- as well as oblique artifacts, and areas of drop out I've done a lot of fairly complex one hour projects in PPro 1.51 Production Bundle SDV on this system and never had an export/transcode/render problem. I have uninstalled/reinstalled Aspect with no improvement. If anyone has some ideas, I would be extemely grateful. Bob

February 2nd, 2006, 01:51 PM	#3
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Compiler Won't Compile Mike Thanks for the reply. The parameters seem OK. I haven't tried deinterlacing yet. What I am finding is that Aspect is unable to render anything off of the timeline correctly. For example, I capture HDV clips into a Cineform 1080 60i project. Everything plays and scrubs perfectly. If I just Export Movie to 1080 60i CFHD-- no change in size, field order, etc-- the compiler fails at some point during the render and the resulting partial clip produced looks terrible, the same artifacts as described. This should be a no brainer. I have a robust system, PPro 2.0 should be fine, and Aspect 4.0 should just install and work as advertised. I have followed these threads for months prior to jumping into HDV. Most of the discussion is about how to make Aspect work "better", not how to make it work at all. If anyone out there has had a similar experience, I would love to hear from you. Thanks Bob

February 2nd, 2006, 10:33 AM	#2
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	Hi Robert, check each parameter carefully I noticed sometimes (in at least ppro 1.5 that the pixel ratios stayed at 1440x1080 or defaulted to 24 frames per second, anyway, try exporting progressive (no fields) to see if that works. Mike

February 2nd, 2006, 02:02 PM	#4
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Robert - are you using the full Premiere Pro or the try-out? The reason I ask is that I had similar issues with the try-out myself. I've not yet bought 2.0 but suspect this could well be the problem.

February 2nd, 2006, 02:55 PM	#5
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Richard I am using the full version of the complete 2.0 Production Studio. Bob

February 2nd, 2006, 03:05 PM	#6
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	Robert try bringing the project into after effects and exporting from there, also, try using the windows avi export with the cineform codec. Also can you describe exactly what your project consists of (transitions (PPro or Cineform) exactly what you have. How many tracks are you using, is it on the first track? 2? 3? every detail if you can. MIke

February 2nd, 2006, 03:10 PM	#7
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	Just for fun, and you get desperate, try using the project on the tryout version of PPro2. mike

February 2nd, 2006, 03:56 PM	#8
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	My own experience was multicoloured horizontal lines of 'interference' along the top of the video and grey wavey lines through the rest of the image. Short exports had this distortion and long exports would come up with compilation errors and wouldn't open at all. This was on a 1280x720, 59.94fps project, so a bit more extreme than the usual Aspect HD usage... However, exporting into a huffyuv-compressed Microsoft AVI was no problem whatsoever. However, I have conferred with CineForm Tech Support and they seem to indicate that it's the fault of me using the try-out. That said, the compilation issues sound a bit similar. Stupid question time: have you re-installed Aspect HD again to see what happens?

February 2nd, 2006, 06:01 PM	#9
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I have uninstalled/reinstalled Aspect with no improvement. Michael: My timeline is 7 min of 25 Sony HDV clips in CFHD 1080 60i .avi. No layers, transitions, effects, etc. This was just a "shake down" test project to examine how Aspect works and to investigate the workflow from HDV to SD DVD output. A number of people have made suggestions to me regarding work-around solutions to this problem of the Aspect compiler not working. For me this raises the question: Isn't the Aspect software package supposed to work as advertised?? After all, I am following the HDV>>SD DVD workflow exactly as Cineform has recommended. Is it the common experience that Aspect is supposed to do A, B, and C, but it really doesn't, and that it is necessary to use other software to get HDV CFHD off of your timeline and into a deliverable format? Maybe my expections are not realistic. Bob

February 2nd, 2006, 09:10 PM	#10
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	Hi Robert, I would lean more toward the fact that if you do a work around it is in order to help locate your specific problem (meaning, the more knowns, the easier to figure out unknowns) try to get it to work then figure why it does not work the other ways. It usually if not almost always is something on my end when stuff goes wrong. Did you try the things I mentioned? How about going back to prem pro1.5 see if it still works. Mike

February 2nd, 2006, 09:29 PM	#11
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Mike: I understand your logic. I'll try your suggestions tonite and see if I make any headway. I have a Cineform ticket in as well. They just collected my Sys Info File, so maybe they will discover a straightfoward fix. More in due course. Many Thanks

February 3rd, 2006, 01:54 AM	#12
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Mike FYI I found that if I use PPro Field Options to deinterlace each 1080 CFHD clip I can export to 480 CFHD (only in short segments to avoid compiler failure), put it in Encore and make a DVD. The Cineform compiler does not like any kind of interlace issues at all, on my system anyway. Also, I can export the 1080 Aspect project into AE and render it out using Microsoft .avi. There were some other approaches I used with modest results. Unfortunately, none of these workflow solutions has produced great video. I transcoded all of the various 480 output to m2v and played the DVD on a Sony 42" HDV TV with progressive scan, component input. Hands down, the best looking, highest resolution, most artifact free images was the footage shot in HDV and captured in SDV with Sony camera downconversion. And it looked way better than any DVD output I've ever obtained with my PD 170s. So, I still don't know if there is something wrong with my system, or my software, or if this is just the way it is in the leading edge world of HDV at this point in time. A tinkerer's paradise, as opposed to a simple, efficient workflow. We'll see. Maybe my Cineform ticket will turn up something relevatory. But for now I'll probably use in camera conversion and regret that I spent the $500 on Aspect. My typical projects involve 120,000 frames, layers, effects, stills, titles, AE motion graphics, and so on. I can't imagine having to hand tweak, massage, import back and forth every single element of one of these projects. I don't think I would have the time. I did go back to PPro 1.51. It still works fine with the Matrox RT100X card and software, but I had never tried to do HDV on it. So, call me discouraged. Bob

February 3rd, 2006, 09:37 AM	#13
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	aaaaaaaah, you have never used cineform until recently meaning with PPro version 2.0 not 1.5? And there is a Matrox 100 in your system !!? I would call that your problem, I would bet (Pinnacle and Matrox are natorious for being real picky on what you do with/to them. This is probably a good example of stating a persons setup first, I would have steared you toward that reason, if you can, try a clean install without the matrox card, I would bet money it will work, do PPro 1.5 first to get a known good point, yep it is the matrox card does not like it (or the matrox software), give it a try. At least to find out if that is the problem. Mike

February 3rd, 2006, 11:24 AM	#14
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I would do a simple test first. I would open a new project that is not handled by the matrox card or matrox card preset and render a test clip of sufficient length to repeat the error. You could also try and disable the maxtrox card in the control panel and try again on fresh premiere 2.0 project. That would be a quick check. Pete

February 3rd, 2006, 12:08 PM	#15
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Just to be clear about my set up: I have PPro 1.51 with the Matrox card and software installed as a plug in to PPro 1.51 only. I have never used Cineform with this set up. I have recently installed full version PPro 2.0, with no Matrox plug in. Aspect 4.0 is installed and being used with PPro 2.0 only. So the compiler error, failure to render type errors I am getting are with PPro 2.0/Aspect 4.0 configuration. This config has no Matrox card/software association. In fact, my prior PPro 1.5/Matrox projects will not even load up in PPro 2.0. That's why I left the old 1.5/Matrox on the system. So, is it possible that the Matrox software/card can be screwing up PPro 2.0 /Aspect even tho Matrox not installed to that software?? Bob