Cineform support of HVX200 and P2 workflow

David Newman · September 7th, 2005, 10:27 AM

Marcus, as we are getting more Prospect HD users out there, their VFW & DirectShow compressors are licensed to encode at 1920x1080. This is something you could consider supporting for those users.

Jim Arthurs · November 5th, 2005, 12:08 PM

Hello, as a user of Vegas for my software NLE editing, I'm a bit concerned that they may not jump quickly with support for HD P2 files as generated by the upcoming Panasonic HVX.

It occured to me that an ideal stopgap would be if a version of Cineform would be able to transcode the P2 media, allowing easy editing via Cineform codec no matter whether Vegas supports DVCPRO or not.

Is anything planned for this? Options that would be useful would be;

DVCPRO 100 1080i support... building 1080 Cineform files from 24p, 30p and 60i
DVCPRO 100 720p support... transcoding from both the 60fps versions and the other frame rates supported.

Thanks,

Jim Arthurs

David Newman · November 5th, 2005, 12:43 PM

Clearly a CineForm Intermediate work-flow would be a good solution of this P2 data, better multi-generation quality and much higher PC software compatibility. However, I can't comment on the if or when this product will come to market.

Jim Arthurs · November 10th, 2005, 12:20 PM

Wow, I just now got the "instant" e-mail notification of your reply and it appears to be six days old...

Thanks David, I do hope you can address this... DVCPRO 100 is a great camera format and a smooth way to transcode the MANY variations to your intermediate codec would be welcome...

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

David Newman · May 11th, 2006, 09:43 PM

I have been promising Panasonic P2/HVX200 support, and now it is ready for beta testing within Aspect HD. I'm looking for HVX200 owners who want to try it out. You don't have to be an existing CineForm customer, all you need is the Panasonic camera and Premiere Pro 1.5.1 or 2.0. This is a 15-day trial for non-CineForm customers and a free upgrade to Aspect HD 4.0 users.

Are you ready?

Now typically when I offer a public beta I post a link for which we get many hundreds of downloads and almost no feedback. We want feedback. So this time you going to have to email me to request the link, that way I can email you questions at a later point. Is it a deal?

To learn about the new P2/MXF support within Aspect HD 4.1 you can read about it here : http://www.cineform.com/products/hvx...ort/hvx200.htm

So play with the new stuff click here : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sendmessa...lmember&u=4574 to send me a message. Tell me a little about the types of projects you are going to use the HXV with Aspect HD, and tell me the shooting modes you are most likely to use.

Thanks.

David Newman · May 12th, 2006, 09:39 AM

Beta users, in the playback setting window -- please turn "De-interlace while scrubbing" off, the default was wrong. I would want you to think the image was soft. The default for this control will be switched off for the release (on the progressive editing modes.)

Marty Baggen · May 22nd, 2006, 10:42 AM

Any comments from those whom may be taking advantage of the new ability of Cineform to handle MXF?

David Newman · May 22nd, 2006, 11:06 AM

We may have fewer beta users of the MXF support here on DVinfo, but please all comments are welcome. This thread on another forum may answer your question http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57522

Marty Baggen · May 28th, 2006, 07:09 AM

All the guidance on this process suggests that it is simply a matter of selecting .MXF files for conversion to Cineform AVI.

I have been unsucessful in converting. I receive a "Format not available (P2 viewer missing?)" prompt in the capture log. I Have version 4.1.1 Build 59.

My MXF source clips were provided by a colleague via CD-R, with no other P2 media files from his P2 card. Is this a problem?

Do I need an image of his P2 media? Does Cineform need to see all the other associated files in order to make a coversion?

David Newman · May 28th, 2006, 08:53 AM

You need an DVCPRO-HD decoder which comes with the P2 Viewer from Panasonic -- any HVX200 owner is licensed to download and install the P2 Viewer (http://panasonic.biz/sav/p2/index.html.) Panasonic doesn't have a policy for those like yourself that want to try it out or work with media from colleagues.

Marty Baggen · May 28th, 2006, 09:06 AM

Thanks David.

It may be a good idea to make that issue known, especially at your site's FAQ. I know that there are some of us that were looking forward to MXF compatibility for the purposes of interchange of footage elements.

I understand that this is more or less a hurdle established by Panasonic, but nonetheless, it would qualify as a "system requirement" for those of us using Cineform for HDV work, while hoping to integrate footage from shooters based on P2.

Next step is to see if I can legally obtain the P2 viewer.... this is disappointing.

Thanks for the response, and enjoy your holiday weekend.

UPDATE:

I went to the Panasonic site, and was allowed to download and install the P2 drivers, then the P2 viewer without any problems. It is NOT a requirement to be a registered owner of a P2 device to do so.

I was able to utilize the conversion process with HDLink without any trouble whatsoever, but the documentation for this added capability is not adequately supported by the FAQ at the Cineform site.

It's a simple process... first install the P2 drivers from Panasonic, THEN the P2 viewer. You're good to go.

My conversion was accomplished with only the .MXF files, but would a better method, for those of us without P2 hardware, be to have an image of the entire P2 card? Would this give us timecode and all audio data.

I am certain that being able to exchange P2 information to and from HDV systems is going to be a very important function to many of us. Is there any chance HDLink will allow conversion back to P2?

David Newman · May 28th, 2006, 10:01 AM

Excellent news on the P2 Viewer, I guess I remembered incorrectly.

For convert all the need data you need the VIDEO and AUDIO directory off the P2 media (the other 4 directories are not necessary for conversion.) You should have timeocde with the video MXF only (the timecode will show when using Aspect HD within Premiere.)

Going back to P2 -- you are the first to even suggest it. No that is not recommended (and currently not supported), P2 is not a suitable distribution media. I understand that projects will require data to be moved to other system, for that reason we are porting CineForm compression to Quicktime and to the Mac. In the meantime you can export to other Quitcktime/AVI format as need -- most will be higher quality than crushing the image back into a DVCPRO-HD file.

Marty Baggen · May 28th, 2006, 10:07 AM

thanks David,

and your points about going back to a P2 system via another format makes a lot of sense.

I can't emphasize enough, how important it is to enable easy import of MXF into our HDV systems.

This will enable me to work directly with NBC's shooters on an upcoming project. It even opens up alternatives for editors with HDV systems that need to hire shooters.... now it doesn't matter if they tote HDV or P2.

For the benefit of others, I would encourage you to expand on the requirements needed to enjoy this new capability in the FAQs at the Cineform site, IE; notify users that all they need to do is download two files from Panasonic to create a virtual P2 studio.

David Newman · May 28th, 2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

I can't emphasize enough, how important it is to enable easy import of MXF into our HDV systems.

We are doing that already, so I'm not sure what you are saying. Please expand on this.

Marty Baggen · May 28th, 2006, 10:39 AM

It seems as though your target user for the P2 conversion feature was an HVX200 user that wanted to edit in Premiere or Vegas.... that would explain why the P2 drivers and viewer was never an issue or mentioned. Anyone with an HVX200 would know that already.

But for those of us with HDV suites (shooting with a Canon, Sony, or JVC)... we have had no option for utilizing footage shot on P2.

Now we can accept material from HVX200 shooters, utilize an HVX200 as part of multiple camera shoots....etc.

Much more flexibility.... the best of both worlds for those of us with Premiere.

When I learned of Cineform's objective to add P2 functionality, I just presumed all this, without thinking that your target may be the "other way around".... the folks shooting P2.

September 7th, 2005, 10:27 AM	#16
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Marcus, as we are getting more Prospect HD users out there, their VFW & DirectShow compressors are licensed to encode at 1920x1080. This is something you could consider supporting for those users. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 5th, 2005, 12:08 PM	#17
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	Cineform support of HVX P2 files... Hello, as a user of Vegas for my software NLE editing, I'm a bit concerned that they may not jump quickly with support for HD P2 files as generated by the upcoming Panasonic HVX. It occured to me that an ideal stopgap would be if a version of Cineform would be able to transcode the P2 media, allowing easy editing via Cineform codec no matter whether Vegas supports DVCPRO or not. Is anything planned for this? Options that would be useful would be; DVCPRO 100 1080i support... building 1080 Cineform files from 24p, 30p and 60i DVCPRO 100 720p support... transcoding from both the 60fps versions and the other frame rates supported. Thanks, Jim Arthurs

November 5th, 2005, 12:43 PM	#18
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Clearly a CineForm Intermediate work-flow would be a good solution of this P2 data, better multi-generation quality and much higher PC software compatibility. However, I can't comment on the if or when this product will come to market. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 11th, 2006, 09:43 PM	#20
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	HVX200 support in Aspect HD now available as a beta I have been promising Panasonic P2/HVX200 support, and now it is ready for beta testing within Aspect HD. I'm looking for HVX200 owners who want to try it out. You don't have to be an existing CineForm customer, all you need is the Panasonic camera and Premiere Pro 1.5.1 or 2.0. This is a 15-day trial for non-CineForm customers and a free upgrade to Aspect HD 4.0 users. Are you ready? Now typically when I offer a public beta I post a link for which we get many hundreds of downloads and almost no feedback. We want feedback. So this time you going to have to email me to request the link, that way I can email you questions at a later point. Is it a deal? To learn about the new P2/MXF support within Aspect HD 4.1 you can read about it here : http://www.cineform.com/products/hvx...ort/hvx200.htm So play with the new stuff click here : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sendmessa...lmember&u=4574 to send me a message. Tell me a little about the types of projects you are going to use the HXV with Aspect HD, and tell me the shooting modes you are most likely to use. Thanks. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 12th, 2006, 09:39 AM	#21
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Beta users, in the playback setting window -- please turn "De-interlace while scrubbing" off, the default was wrong. I would want you to think the image was soft. The default for this control will be switched off for the release (on the progressive editing modes.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 10th, 2005, 12:20 PM	#19
Jim Arthurs Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 120	Wow, I just now got the "instant" e-mail notification of your reply and it appears to be six days old... Thanks David, I do hope you can address this... DVCPRO 100 is a great camera format and a smooth way to transcode the MANY variations to your intermediate codec would be welcome... Regards, Jim Arthurs

May 22nd, 2006, 10:42 AM	#22
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	P2 Workflow Any comments from those whom may be taking advantage of the new ability of Cineform to handle MXF?

May 22nd, 2006, 11:06 AM	#23
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	We may have fewer beta users of the MXF support here on DVinfo, but please all comments are welcome. This thread on another forum may answer your question http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57522 __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 28th, 2006, 07:09 AM	#24
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	All the guidance on this process suggests that it is simply a matter of selecting .MXF files for conversion to Cineform AVI. I have been unsucessful in converting. I receive a "Format not available (P2 viewer missing?)" prompt in the capture log. I Have version 4.1.1 Build 59. My MXF source clips were provided by a colleague via CD-R, with no other P2 media files from his P2 card. Is this a problem? Do I need an image of his P2 media? Does Cineform need to see all the other associated files in order to make a coversion?

May 28th, 2006, 08:53 AM	#25
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You need an DVCPRO-HD decoder which comes with the P2 Viewer from Panasonic -- any HVX200 owner is licensed to download and install the P2 Viewer (http://panasonic.biz/sav/p2/index.html.) Panasonic doesn't have a policy for those like yourself that want to try it out or work with media from colleagues. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 28th, 2006, 09:06 AM	#26
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	Thanks David. It may be a good idea to make that issue known, especially at your site's FAQ. I know that there are some of us that were looking forward to MXF compatibility for the purposes of interchange of footage elements. I understand that this is more or less a hurdle established by Panasonic, but nonetheless, it would qualify as a "system requirement" for those of us using Cineform for HDV work, while hoping to integrate footage from shooters based on P2. Next step is to see if I can legally obtain the P2 viewer.... this is disappointing. Thanks for the response, and enjoy your holiday weekend. UPDATE: I went to the Panasonic site, and was allowed to download and install the P2 drivers, then the P2 viewer without any problems. It is NOT a requirement to be a registered owner of a P2 device to do so. I was able to utilize the conversion process with HDLink without any trouble whatsoever, but the documentation for this added capability is not adequately supported by the FAQ at the Cineform site. It's a simple process... first install the P2 drivers from Panasonic, THEN the P2 viewer. You're good to go. My conversion was accomplished with only the .MXF files, but would a better method, for those of us without P2 hardware, be to have an image of the entire P2 card? Would this give us timecode and all audio data. I am certain that being able to exchange P2 information to and from HDV systems is going to be a very important function to many of us. Is there any chance HDLink will allow conversion back to P2?

May 28th, 2006, 10:01 AM	#27
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Excellent news on the P2 Viewer, I guess I remembered incorrectly. For convert all the need data you need the VIDEO and AUDIO directory off the P2 media (the other 4 directories are not necessary for conversion.) You should have timeocde with the video MXF only (the timecode will show when using Aspect HD within Premiere.) Going back to P2 -- you are the first to even suggest it. No that is not recommended (and currently not supported), P2 is not a suitable distribution media. I understand that projects will require data to be moved to other system, for that reason we are porting CineForm compression to Quicktime and to the Mac. In the meantime you can export to other Quitcktime/AVI format as need -- most will be higher quality than crushing the image back into a DVCPRO-HD file. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 28th, 2006, 10:07 AM	#28
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	thanks David, and your points about going back to a P2 system via another format makes a lot of sense. I can't emphasize enough, how important it is to enable easy import of MXF into our HDV systems. This will enable me to work directly with NBC's shooters on an upcoming project. It even opens up alternatives for editors with HDV systems that need to hire shooters.... now it doesn't matter if they tote HDV or P2. For the benefit of others, I would encourage you to expand on the requirements needed to enjoy this new capability in the FAQs at the Cineform site, IE; notify users that all they need to do is download two files from Panasonic to create a virtual P2 studio.

May 28th, 2006, 10:39 AM	#30
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	It seems as though your target user for the P2 conversion feature was an HVX200 user that wanted to edit in Premiere or Vegas.... that would explain why the P2 drivers and viewer was never an issue or mentioned. Anyone with an HVX200 would know that already. But for those of us with HDV suites (shooting with a Canon, Sony, or JVC)... we have had no option for utilizing footage shot on P2. Now we can accept material from HVX200 shooters, utilize an HVX200 as part of multiple camera shoots....etc. Much more flexibility.... the best of both worlds for those of us with Premiere. When I learned of Cineform's objective to add P2 functionality, I just presumed all this, without thinking that your target may be the "other way around".... the folks shooting P2.