Alternative to Cineform? at DVinfo.net

Nicholas de Kock · October 20th, 2011, 11:06 AM

I need good advice desperately, Cineform has been my codec of choice for a long time I was hoping that Vegas Pro 11 would solve the black-out issues I've had with Vegas 10 when rendering to Cineform but no dice. Rendering out projects with Vegas & Cineform is like playing Russian roulette sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't, I can't keep on struggling like this I need a stable alternative to Cineform that works in Vegas does such a codec exists?

I have lodged support ticked with Sony and Cineform, Sony has claimed responsibility for the issue and told me to wait for 11 and see what happens, same issue, I can't wait any longer.

Mervin Langley · October 20th, 2011, 08:00 PM

Nicholas tryVegas 9e. That works for me. No problems with that.

David Newman · October 20th, 2011, 09:00 PM

Nicholas, are you using 64-bit Vegas? We too believe the black frames issue in Sony responsibility as it happens with other codecs. In many cases memory seems to be a factor, which is greatly alleviated using 64-bit with more than 4GB of RAM.

Nicholas de Kock · October 20th, 2011, 11:42 PM

Mervin Vegas 11 now has GPU support which helps a lot I wouldn't be able to go back to 9. David yes I am running 64bit with 8Gb of ram. It always worked fine even with Vegas 8, the real problem is I have to output projects everyday and getting the same black-out on clips with 50% of my renders, rendering out in sections of 5 minutes or less helps. I believe Cineform is a great codec if not the best that's why I spent the money on it however I need to get work done & unfortunately Vegas is the NLE I feel most comfortable with.

Roy Feldman · October 21st, 2011, 04:00 AM

I have had the same issue with Cineform files going black in Vegas 11, I am in 64bit with 12g ram and sandy bridge processor. It is not consistant, I can have 10 cineform clips and all will work, or 2 don't work or one won't work. Save project>restart Vegas> might work...might not.
I love CF for the resize,change frame rate and first light capability but I'm looking for a alt codec, cost me too many hours to redo and hope I could get a render with no black frames.

David Newman · October 21st, 2011, 09:58 AM

We would love to have a solution for this, but as it happens with other codecs too, we know there is nothing we can do from our end.

John Cline quote : "I think we can all agree that it isn't any one specific codec that has the problem, it's potentially all of them. I've even had JPG and PNG stills go black. This certainly seems to point the finger squarely at Vegas."

I too have seen black frames or black clips in earlier builds of Vegas, although not in the current version, which is working fine for me. This is a random intermediate bug that must be stressing the Vegas team out. A bug an engineer can't reproduce is a very hard bug to squash. Still it helps to keep your reports flowing to the Sony team for a new lead may be discovered.

Roy Feldman · October 21st, 2011, 12:35 PM

On the bright side the files I make in HD Link do fine in Vegas and I can render them out to other codecs, it's just the render to cineform from inside of Vegas that isn't working for me. Just in case anyone was interested CF files do great in Lightworks though not mentioned in their accepted codecs.

Stuart Campbell · February 26th, 2012, 02:16 PM

While we wait for Sony to sort this out does anyone do anything as a successful workaround perhaps? It's driving me mad and I'm gutted to learn it still exists in V11. I love Cineform, I love Vegas - but the black frame issue drives me MAD MAD MAD. I've lost count of the number of re-starts and re-renders and lost hours.

I'm about to build a new 64bit system with V11 and Cineform and add in a Blackmagic card for SDI HD monitoring.

Anyone found any workarounds perhaps?

SONY if you read this- sort it out!

David Newman · February 26th, 2012, 04:14 PM

All data shows the black frame issue are solved, but you must run the latest Vegas 11 and lastest CineForm decoders (at least v7.6.2 of the decoder -- which ships with NeoScene 5.6.2 and CineForm Studio ??? 1.1.2.) There was a fault, and it has been clearly fixed, we haven't looped demanding sequences that failed in minutes for days. You may need a reboot between the install of the new components -- something an application hang on the old decoder, preventing a clean update (rare.) The components from CineForm that must at least v5.6.2 are

C:\Program Files (x86)\CineForm\Tools\CFHDDecoder.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\CineForm\Tools\CFHDDecoder64.dll

Right click on these are select properties to see the version:

Stuart Campbell · February 27th, 2012, 02:09 PM

David thank you - this is good news indeed.

By coincidence I've spent all morning repairing black holes in a render with v9e. Time to move to v11 then I think!

October 20th, 2011, 11:06 AM	#1
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	Alternative to Cineform? I need good advice desperately, Cineform has been my codec of choice for a long time I was hoping that Vegas Pro 11 would solve the black-out issues I've had with Vegas 10 when rendering to Cineform but no dice. Rendering out projects with Vegas & Cineform is like playing Russian roulette sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't, I can't keep on struggling like this I need a stable alternative to Cineform that works in Vegas does such a codec exists? I have lodged support ticked with Sony and Cineform, Sony has claimed responsibility for the issue and told me to wait for 11 and see what happens, same issue, I can't wait any longer.

October 20th, 2011, 08:00 PM	#2
Mervin Langley Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Burlington, Wisconsin Posts: 137	Re: Alternative to Cineform? Nicholas tryVegas 9e. That works for me. No problems with that.

October 20th, 2011, 09:00 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Alternative to Cineform? Nicholas, are you using 64-bit Vegas? We too believe the black frames issue in Sony responsibility as it happens with other codecs. In many cases memory seems to be a factor, which is greatly alleviated using 64-bit with more than 4GB of RAM. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 20th, 2011, 11:42 PM	#4
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	Re: Alternative to Cineform? Mervin Vegas 11 now has GPU support which helps a lot I wouldn't be able to go back to 9. David yes I am running 64bit with 8Gb of ram. It always worked fine even with Vegas 8, the real problem is I have to output projects everyday and getting the same black-out on clips with 50% of my renders, rendering out in sections of 5 minutes or less helps. I believe Cineform is a great codec if not the best that's why I spent the money on it however I need to get work done & unfortunately Vegas is the NLE I feel most comfortable with.

October 21st, 2011, 04:00 AM	#5
Roy Feldman Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Grosse pointe, michigan Posts: 189	Re: Alternative to Cineform? I have had the same issue with Cineform files going black in Vegas 11, I am in 64bit with 12g ram and sandy bridge processor. It is not consistant, I can have 10 cineform clips and all will work, or 2 don't work or one won't work. Save project>restart Vegas> might work...might not. I love CF for the resize,change frame rate and first light capability but I'm looking for a alt codec, cost me too many hours to redo and hope I could get a render with no black frames.

October 21st, 2011, 09:58 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Alternative to Cineform? We would love to have a solution for this, but as it happens with other codecs too, we know there is nothing we can do from our end. John Cline quote : "I think we can all agree that it isn't any one specific codec that has the problem, it's potentially all of them. I've even had JPG and PNG stills go black. This certainly seems to point the finger squarely at Vegas." I too have seen black frames or black clips in earlier builds of Vegas, although not in the current version, which is working fine for me. This is a random intermediate bug that must be stressing the Vegas team out. A bug an engineer can't reproduce is a very hard bug to squash. Still it helps to keep your reports flowing to the Sony team for a new lead may be discovered. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 21st, 2011, 12:35 PM	#7
Roy Feldman Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Grosse pointe, michigan Posts: 189	Re: Alternative to Cineform? On the bright side the files I make in HD Link do fine in Vegas and I can render them out to other codecs, it's just the render to cineform from inside of Vegas that isn't working for me. Just in case anyone was interested CF files do great in Lightworks though not mentioned in their accepted codecs.

February 26th, 2012, 02:16 PM	#8
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Re: Alternative to Cineform? While we wait for Sony to sort this out does anyone do anything as a successful workaround perhaps? It's driving me mad and I'm gutted to learn it still exists in V11. I love Cineform, I love Vegas - but the black frame issue drives me MAD MAD MAD. I've lost count of the number of re-starts and re-renders and lost hours. I'm about to build a new 64bit system with V11 and Cineform and add in a Blackmagic card for SDI HD monitoring. Anyone found any workarounds perhaps? SONY if you read this- sort it out!

February 26th, 2012, 04:14 PM	#9
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Alternative to Cineform? All data shows the black frame issue are solved, but you must run the latest Vegas 11 and lastest CineForm decoders (at least v7.6.2 of the decoder -- which ships with NeoScene 5.6.2 and CineForm Studio ??? 1.1.2.) There was a fault, and it has been clearly fixed, we haven't looped demanding sequences that failed in minutes for days. You may need a reboot between the install of the new components -- something an application hang on the old decoder, preventing a clean update (rare.) The components from CineForm that must at least v5.6.2 are C:\Program Files (x86)\CineForm\Tools\CFHDDecoder.dll C:\Program Files (x86)\CineForm\Tools\CFHDDecoder64.dll Right click on these are select properties to see the version: Attached Thumbnails __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 27th, 2012, 02:09 PM	#10
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Re: Alternative to Cineform? David thank you - this is good news indeed. By coincidence I've spent all morning repairing black holes in a render with v9e. Time to move to v11 then I think!