CS5.5 Compatable??

[Ariel Gilboa]

I see.

OK, good to know.

[Victor Boyko]

premiere cs5.5 increased support for DSLR's. I doubt you will need neoscene any longer.

[Edwin Baldwin]

I have Neo installed and I just installed CS5.5. All I see is the AVI CF encode options. Do I have to install Neo again to see the CF encode ... options?

Ed

[David Newman]

Yes, Neo has to be installed after CS to know where to add the components.

[Jay West]

I believe CS 5.5 installs as a "new version" rather than an "upgrade" and new versions require reinstallation of CF. I would use the Cineform Uninstall tool to uninstall Neo without deactivation, then reinstall the last CF upgrade and see if that fixes your problem. This uninstall/install routine is the same one used whenever you get a CF upgrade, so it should not be a problem.

By the way, I am not sure what you mean by "encode" options.

My frame of reference is PPro CS5 on PC with NeoHD 5.5. Under PPro CS5 (file--.export--media--> format) and directly to Adobe Media Encoder CS5 (format and settings), the only CF options I find on my system are for CF AVI and CF MOV. I do not see any AVI CF (as opposed to CF AVI). Am I looking in the wrong place or are CS 5.5 menus different from the existing CS 5 menus? Is it only CF MOV that is missing or did you have other CF encoding options previously? Does any of this change when you follow the uninstall/reinstall steps?

[Edwin Baldwin]

Originally Posted by Jay West

I believe CS 5.5 installs as a "new version" rather than an "upgrade" and new versions require reinstallation of CF. I would use the Cineform Uninstall tool to uninstall Neo without deactivation, then reinstall the last CF upgrade and see if that fixes your problem. This uninstall/install routine is the same one used whenever you get a CF upgrade, so it should not be a problem.

By the way, I am not sure what you mean by "encode" options.

My frame of reference is PPro CS5 on PC with NeoHD 5.5. Under PPro CS5 (file--.export--media--> format) and directly to Adobe Media Encoder CS5 (format and settings), the only CF options I find on my system are for CF AVI and CF MOV. I do not see any AVI CF (as opposed to CF AVI). Am I looking in the wrong place or are CS 5.5 menus different from the existing CS 5 menus? Is it only CF MOV that is missing or did you have other CF encoding options previously? Does any of this change when you follow the uninstall/reinstall steps?

Thanks Jay, installing Neo again gave me the Cineform AVI and MOV export options. The avi CF I was referring to are the old VFW (video for windows) codec. If you go to the Export setting panel under Export Settings set the Format to Microsoft AVI instead of Cineform AVI. Go down under the Video tab and roll through the codecs and you will find Cineform x64 Codec v7.2.3 vfw codec. Click on setting and you will see the codec settings. There is also a CF codec under Quicktime.

Ed

[Jay West]

Well, that is interesting.

On my system, the export settings menus do not show the options you describe. This is probably because I have an MXO2 Mini installed on my system. Under MS AVI I see only NTSC, PAL and Matrox settings. Since I only use the CF-AVI, anyway, the absence of the AVI-CF option is just a curiousity for me.

[Paul Cook]

To add to this I just installed a fresh copy of win7 64bit and CS5.5 full version. I've installed the 5.5.1.323 latest Neo 3D trial and I get CHOP CITY when adding a simple dissolve (during the dissolve) to clips in a cineform 1080p 23.976 Premiere Pro comp.

In addition the playback also goes choppy on any clips that have been corrected in FirstLight. Editing the native dslr mov files using the DSLR comp templates is smooth as silk during transitions and any other number of MPE effects I care to throw at it.

Interestingly if I edit cineform clips using the adobe DSLR 1080p 24 comp - I can add effects and transitions and its also smooth as silk. So not sure what is happening here? Does no one use the Cineform comp templates any more?

[Jay West]

Paul:

By "comp," I assume you mean composition in the sense of sequence settings for a PPro Timeline.

First question: do you see some advantage to using Cineform sequence presets in CS 5.5 as opposed to simply putting Cineform files on standard timelines? Does a Cineform preset enable 10-bit color output to a second monitor (assuming it is 10-bit capable) for timeline monitoring and color grading?


I cannot recall the last time I tried using a Cineform preset. Typically, I use a Matrox 1080/60i preset as I also use a Matrox MXO2-Mini for a third screen display. I've also worked with Cineform files in other standard presets in CS 3, 4 and 5.

Still, your post made me curious so I ran some tests. I did this under CS5 because I have not yet decided whether or not to get the 5.5 upgrade. I would think there would not be significant differences in results. I should add that I am running CS5 under Win 7 Pro on a system with an ASUS P6TD-v2 mobo, I7/950, 12 gb RAM, GTX 260, with multiple hard drives and my media files and project/render files on separate RAIDs. I regularly do multi-cam edits with as many as seven HDV and AVCHD video tracks (typically converted to Cineform 1080 AVI files).

First, I tried a Cineform Sequence for a 1080/50p clip I received. (This was shot by somebody who had just bought a Sony NX70 and could not get his PPro to recognize LPCM audio with the full 50p footage he had shot. I tried a Cineform conversion to see if it could read the LPCM audio the way it does with the 1080i LPCM I get from my NX5. It did not.) I put the 1080/50p clip in a CS 5 timeline using a matching Cineform 1080/50p setting. I made a cut and added a simple cross-dissolve. PPro CS5 would play back but would not recognize any transition at all. I tried to render. CS5 crashed.

Next, I restarted PPro and created a Cineform 1080i sequence. I brought in a couple of Cineform AVI files. These were native 1080/30i files -- aka 59.97 NTSC 1080 as well as 60i. One was a file converted from HDV and the other from AVCHD. Both have First Light color adjustments. They are files I am currently using without problems in long multi-cam project. I chopped out clips from each file, dropped them on the timeline and added a simple dissolve between them. Same results.

With two crashes, I did not even test a 24p setting.

Seems that the Cineform presets don't work under Adobe CS5 and 5.5 on some systems with some kinds of footage.

You could file a trouble ticket with Cineform.

Or you could just use your Cineform conversions in standard timelines and just ignore the Cineform timeline presets.

[Paul Cook]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the in-depth post.

Yes I did try the cineform files in a a 1080p DSLR preset timeline and as you say they worked flawlessly. I guess I was just operating from old school mentality where one of the benefits of using a cineform timeline was that if you had to render any effects - they would be rendered using the 10bit cineform codec.

I guess its a little redundant as most simple form projects no longer require rendering parts of the timeline...but surely there are still layer heavy, effects rich sequences that Adobes MPE cant cope with that would need to be rendered. In that case it looks like it would be handled with I-Frame mpeg 8bit 4:2:2 same as your Matrix offers.

I just thought using a Cineform preset would ensure everything was kept in a CF10bit codec until the final output. But I guess if no one uses the CF presets anymore...it may be just the way it is :-)

[Carlo Macchiavello]

Originally Posted by Julian Frost

Three different people at Adobe told me, on three separate occasions, that the files supplied in the Trial (both the downloaded version and the purchased DVD version) are IDENTICAL in EVERY WAY (their words) to the store-bought, full DVD installation disks. The only thing that changes how the software works, is the serial number used to activate it.

they lie...
when you install demo of adobe suite you miss a lot's of codec, not only for rendering, but also to read and decode correctly video files in excam and more...

anyway i use smoothly cs5.5. suite and cineform on old 2006 computer...

[Jay West]

Originally Posted by Paul Cook

I guess its a little redundant as most simple form projects no longer require rendering parts of the timeline...but surely there are still layer heavy, effects rich sequences that Adobes MPE cant cope with that would need to be rendered. In that case it looks like it would be handled with I-Frame mpeg 8bit 4:2:2 same as your Matrix offers.

I just thought using a Cineform preset would ensure everything was kept in a CF10bit codec until the final output. But I guess if no one uses the CF presets anymore...it may be just the way it is :-)

Haven't found anything yet that MPE cannot cope with except Cineform pre-sets. I had not thought to run my tests with MPE disabled.

[Pete Bauer]

As of version CS5.5, Julian is correct. Even though Carlo is using CS5.5, his information is outdated and would refer to CS5 and earlier. See my article that has a paragraph to discuss this issue:

A Spring Surprise from Adobe: CS5.5 at DVInfo.net

Here's the excerpt:

After taking flak over the past few years about the trial software not supporting MPEG-2 due to licensing restrictions against distributing the codec for free, Adobe has apparently done whatever was needed to jump that hurdle. Software trials are now fully functional limited-time versions, with only a couple of caveats:

•Some third party After Effects plug-ins won’t be available until you purchase (Mocha, Keylight, CycoreFX, Color Finesse LE, ProEXR, and Digieffects FreeFrom).
•Encore will be installed but not functional in the trial.

[Burk Wagner]

OK, all this is nice.
But do we have a compatible build (or beta) of CF yet, and what presets to use (or avoid) to make CF compatible with CS5.5??

[David Newman]

5.5 is be supported for long while. The playback engine has bug in nesting, same in 5.0. So for 2D the Desktop mode is fine, for 3D still use the presets.