Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF at DVinfo.net

Charles W. Hull · March 4th, 2011, 11:00 AM

There is an issue with Premiere Pro 5 and the MXF files from the Canon XF series cameras. The MXF files seem to take up lots of system memory and can slow down editing for larger projects. When MXF is converted to Cineform avi it edits normally in PP5 with no memory issues. Maybe Adobe can fix this in a future release, but this is not certain.

But you need NeoHD or higher to handle MXF. Some XF camera users are scrambling to find a solution but are reluctant to spring for NeoHD. Perhaps a version of NeoScene that handles MXF is timely.

David Newman · March 4th, 2011, 11:15 AM

MXF camera users are not NeoScene users, we see a large difference here. Not to say we won't make it easier of MXF pro camera users in the future -- can't say how.

Charles W. Hull · March 4th, 2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

MXF camera users are not NeoScene users, we see a large difference here.

I'll buy that. Some MXF users are just feeling their way through PP5. Most of that crowd seems to use FCP anyway. I'm happy with Neo4K and PP5 and my XF camera so I don't have an issue. Anything you add to the MXF experience will be a plus.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 28th, 2011, 06:11 AM

Just to clarify, am I right in thinking that Neoscene will not convert .mxf files to cineform (I use the Canon XF300) - but NeoHD will?
I'd like to take advantage of First Light and would be happy to consider an upgrade...

Charles W. Hull · May 28th, 2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson

Just to clarify, am I right in thinking that Neoscene will not convert .mxf files to cineform (I use the Canon XF300) - but NeoHD will?
I'd like to take advantage of First Light and would be happy to consider an upgrade...

My understanding is that that Neoscene won't convert .mxf files. But Neo will - you can download the trial version to test file conversion and FirstLight.

The original post was about a problem in Premiere Pro CS5 where using the Cineform avi file worked better than .mxf; but Adobe fixed this in CS5.5. But I'm hooked on FirstLight and usually edit with avi.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 29th, 2011, 03:02 AM

Thank you Charles,
I will download the trial version and check it out.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 29th, 2011, 08:10 AM

Well, I've downloaded the trial version and it's really excellent. I'm using it with Sony Vegas Pro 10.
One query to which I haven't been able to find an answer is:
What if I want to use the same source clip a number of times, but with different grading?
It seems as if Firstlight adds the chosen effect to the source clip, so this would carry the same look whenever I accessed it. I may be totally dumb about this and am probably missing something obvious, so please indulge me!

Charles W. Hull · May 29th, 2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson

What if I want to use the same source clip a number of times, but with different grading?

FirstLight has keyframing so you can have different grading on different parts of the clip. If you need different grading for the same part of the clip you need to copy and rename the clip.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 29th, 2011, 01:55 PM

THank you once again Charles - that sounds very sensible. That's what I'll do then.

Chris Barcellos · May 29th, 2011, 03:39 PM

Take care. Interestingly if you render a file that has been unchanged in edit, back out to Cineform, it will carry through any changes you make to the original. While I haven't tried it, that may be true of any copy made. It was explained by David Newman once that its a matter of searching system for the original code, and it changes everything that spawns from it.

That is why in Vegas I will make a minute change of something and rerender. I'd be curious to see if others are running into same thing.

John Wiley · November 27th, 2011, 08:56 PM

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I just want to clarify: Neoscene does not work with Canon MXF files but if I upgrade to Neo4K it will work fine? And I don't need to use the Canon XF Utility to import the files first? I can jsust drag and drop straight from the card?

For a format touted as "Industry standard" I am surprised by just how many speedbumps I've hit with footage from an XF100. Somebody I shoot with regularly owns the camera and every time I get footage from them I end up with a headache.

Charles W. Hull · November 28th, 2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wiley

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I just want to clarify: Neoscene does not work with Canon MXF files but if I upgrade to Neo4K it will work fine? And I don't need to use the Canon XF Utility to import the files first? I can jsust drag and drop straight from the card?

That's right, although the Cineform product to upgrade to is now named neo, not Neo4K.

I use the Canon XF Utility to import because it is easier to use than drag and drop, especially if you have lots of clips. But drag and drop will work as well.

John Wiley · November 29th, 2011, 04:37 AM

Thanks Charles. I don't have the Canon software because I don't own the camera, but I sometimes get delivered the footage. I'm not exactly a fan of the folder structure, but luckily the stuff I'm editing from this camera is all long-run live events so all the clips are in one folder generally.

Ian Lewis · November 30th, 2011, 03:29 AM

I use the Canon XF305 a lot and I find that if I point HDLINK at the top CLIPS folder on the card and tell it to select folder, then it converts all the files in all the sub-directories nicely without further intervention. No need to rummage in sub-directories. Or are you talking about something else?
Ian

March 4th, 2011, 11:00 AM	#1
Charles W. Hull Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 445	Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF There is an issue with Premiere Pro 5 and the MXF files from the Canon XF series cameras. The MXF files seem to take up lots of system memory and can slow down editing for larger projects. When MXF is converted to Cineform avi it edits normally in PP5 with no memory issues. Maybe Adobe can fix this in a future release, but this is not certain. But you need NeoHD or higher to handle MXF. Some XF camera users are scrambling to find a solution but are reluctant to spring for NeoHD. Perhaps a version of NeoScene that handles MXF is timely.

March 4th, 2011, 11:15 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF MXF camera users are not NeoScene users, we see a large difference here. Not to say we won't make it easier of MXF pro camera users in the future -- can't say how. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 28th, 2011, 06:11 AM	#4
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF Just to clarify, am I right in thinking that Neoscene will not convert .mxf files to cineform (I use the Canon XF300) - but NeoHD will? I'd like to take advantage of First Light and would be happy to consider an upgrade... __________________ TV Director / Cameraman

May 29th, 2011, 03:02 AM	#6
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF Thank you Charles, I will download the trial version and check it out. __________________ TV Director / Cameraman

May 29th, 2011, 08:10 AM	#7
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF Well, I've downloaded the trial version and it's really excellent. I'm using it with Sony Vegas Pro 10. One query to which I haven't been able to find an answer is: What if I want to use the same source clip a number of times, but with different grading? It seems as if Firstlight adds the chosen effect to the source clip, so this would carry the same look whenever I accessed it. I may be totally dumb about this and am probably missing something obvious, so please indulge me! __________________ TV Director / Cameraman

May 29th, 2011, 01:55 PM	#9
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF THank you once again Charles - that sounds very sensible. That's what I'll do then. __________________ TV Director / Cameraman

May 29th, 2011, 03:39 PM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF Take care. Interestingly if you render a file that has been unchanged in edit, back out to Cineform, it will carry through any changes you make to the original. While I haven't tried it, that may be true of any copy made. It was explained by David Newman once that its a matter of searching system for the original code, and it changes everything that spawns from it. That is why in Vegas I will make a minute change of something and rerender. I'd be curious to see if others are running into same thing. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

November 27th, 2011, 08:56 PM	#11
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF Sorry to dig up an old thread but I just want to clarify: Neoscene does not work with Canon MXF files but if I upgrade to Neo4K it will work fine? And I don't need to use the Canon XF Utility to import the files first? I can jsust drag and drop straight from the card? For a format touted as "Industry standard" I am surprised by just how many speedbumps I've hit with footage from an XF100. Somebody I shoot with regularly owns the camera and every time I get footage from them I end up with a headache.

November 29th, 2011, 04:37 AM	#13
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF Thanks Charles. I don't have the Canon software because I don't own the camera, but I sometimes get delivered the footage. I'm not exactly a fan of the folder structure, but luckily the stuff I'm editing from this camera is all long-run live events so all the clips are in one folder generally.

November 30th, 2011, 03:29 AM	#14
Ian Lewis Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Farnham, UK Posts: 87	Re: Product opportunity with NeoScene and MXF I use the Canon XF305 a lot and I find that if I point HDLINK at the top CLIPS folder on the card and tell it to select folder, then it converts all the files in all the sub-directories nicely without further intervention. No need to rummage in sub-directories. Or are you talking about something else? Ian