NeoScene + Vegas 10.0(c): can't render to 1920x1080 at DVinfo.net

Steven Reid · January 4th, 2011, 09:15 PM

I'll make this short and blunt, hoping that I discovered a very new glitch or inviting someone to slap me upside the head with a quick fix.

Source footage on timeline = 1440x1080 24p Cineform avi (converted from HDV with NeoScene). PAR = 1.333. Vegas project settings are matched to source footage.

Render to 1920x1080 24p avi with PAR = 1.000, using Cineform codec at "High" quality. I''ve done this thousands of times without a hiccup. Yet, that I get now looks like a 1920x1080 video squashed into a 1440x1080 frame, with the remainder as black (see frame grab below).

When I render using exactly the same settings, but with the Lagarith codec, the rendered 1920x1080 24p avi looks perfect (i.e., full frame), as expected.

When I place onto the timeline my HDV footage (Canon 24f) straight from the camera (1440x1080p, PAR=1.333), and render using CF 1920x1080 24p, I get the expected full frame 1920x1080p video.

When I add at least one video effect (e.g., levels) to the 1440x1080p CF footage on the timeline, THEN render to CF 1920x1080p, I get the expected full frame video. Take the effect off...BAM...back to squashed video. This is not SO bad because I use at least one effect, but it is VERY strange that CF seems broken when converting 1440x1080p straight to 1920x1080p.

So the problem seems to be rendering from Cineform 1440x1080p (PAR=1.333) to Cineform 1920x1080p (PAR=1.000).

This glitch just popped up. I can reproduce in Vegas 10.0(c) 32-bit and 64-bit. It has never happened before. What gives, Cineform? Is there something about pixel aspect ratios that now suddenly causes a problem when rendering from one PAR to another? Or is this a Vegas problem? It didn't seem to be an issue with Vegas 10.0(a) or 10.0(b).

TIA,
Steve

David Newman · January 5th, 2011, 12:36 PM

This is a likely a Vegas error as we encode what we are given. If you add a filter on the clip, does it do it? I'm wonder it Vegas is incorrectly smart rendering even though there is a size change.

Steven Reid · January 5th, 2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

This is a likely a Vegas error as we encode what we are given. If you add a filter on the clip, does it do it? I'm wonder it Vegas is incorrectly smart rendering even though there is a size change.

Yes, if I add a Sony filter like levels or third party like Magic Bullet, the render is correct. Once the filter is removed, however, I get the errant render. For what it's worth, my failed renders show "No recompression required" in the Vegas preview window during the render.

Is this something that I should make into a support ticket for Sony?

David Newman · January 5th, 2011, 01:58 PM

Yes, you have now confirmed a bug in Sony Vegas's "smart render" detection, that should include the source resolution much match the output resolution.

Michael Gyori · January 21st, 2011, 10:21 PM

I'm getting random crashes rendering to Cineform with Vegas 10.0c....

It seems that every update of Vegas undoes Cineform.

David Newman · January 22nd, 2011, 10:18 AM

We are not having other customer report of this. If you crash is reporting as inside CFHDDecoder.dll, send as the file that caused the crash (maybe corrupt,) otherwise this should be a report for Sony.

Christopher Neville · January 23rd, 2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Gyori

I'm getting random crashes rendering to Cineform with Vegas 10.0c....

It seems that every update of Vegas undoes Cineform.

I had a similar problem when rendering to Cineform with Vegas 10. I would have a rendering crash about 5-10 seconds into my render. What seemed to be happening was that the Cineform encoding quality settings weren't holding. Often, the Encoded Format drop down would be blank, and/or the Encoding Quality would be set to Filmscan1. So now when I want to render to Cineform, I have to manually set the Cineform codec options every time to YUV 4:2:2 and Medium or High

David Newman · January 23rd, 2011, 10:21 AM

Christopher,

That is a bug you should report to Sony, they control the quality selection, and should be preserving your settings.

Michael Gyori · January 26th, 2011, 06:34 PM

It seems all my problems were related to old render templates I created in Vegas 9 that referenced Cineform. I had encountered and resolved this problem before and had thought all my templates were updated.... except, of course, the one I was trying to use recently.

To fix bad templates, change the codec to something other than Cineform, then switch it back to Cineform, open the configuration, close it, and save the template. The template will then work and not immediately crash Vegas 10 before the first frame is even processed.

Michael Gyori · January 26th, 2011, 06:40 PM

It seems all my problems were related to bad render templates. If you have any templates referencing Cineform for compression in templates from Vegas 9 (or earlier) and want to use them in Vegas 10, you need to open the template, switch it to another compression codec, switch it back to Cineform, open it's configuration, close it, and save the template.

Now the render template using Cineform will not crash Vegas 10 before even the first frame is processed.

Sorry for the vague complaining before. Hopefully this info will help someone who is having the same crashes with Cineform and Vegas 10.

January 4th, 2011, 09:15 PM	#1
Steven Reid Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 435	NeoScene + Vegas 10.0(c): can't render to 1920x1080 I'll make this short and blunt, hoping that I discovered a very new glitch or inviting someone to slap me upside the head with a quick fix. Source footage on timeline = 1440x1080 24p Cineform avi (converted from HDV with NeoScene). PAR = 1.333. Vegas project settings are matched to source footage. Render to 1920x1080 24p avi with PAR = 1.000, using Cineform codec at "High" quality. I''ve done this thousands of times without a hiccup. Yet, that I get now looks like a 1920x1080 video squashed into a 1440x1080 frame, with the remainder as black (see frame grab below). When I render using exactly the same settings, but with the Lagarith codec, the rendered 1920x1080 24p avi looks perfect (i.e., full frame), as expected. When I place onto the timeline my HDV footage (Canon 24f) straight from the camera (1440x1080p, PAR=1.333), and render using CF 1920x1080 24p, I get the expected full frame 1920x1080p video. When I add at least one video effect (e.g., levels) to the 1440x1080p CF footage on the timeline, THEN render to CF 1920x1080p, I get the expected full frame video. Take the effect off...BAM...back to squashed video. This is not SO bad because I use at least one effect, but it is VERY strange that CF seems broken when converting 1440x1080p straight to 1920x1080p. So the problem seems to be rendering from Cineform 1440x1080p (PAR=1.333) to Cineform 1920x1080p (PAR=1.000). This glitch just popped up. I can reproduce in Vegas 10.0(c) 32-bit and 64-bit. It has never happened before. What gives, Cineform? Is there something about pixel aspect ratios that now suddenly causes a problem when rendering from one PAR to another? Or is this a Vegas problem? It didn't seem to be an issue with Vegas 10.0(a) or 10.0(b). TIA, Steve Attached Thumbnails

January 5th, 2011, 12:36 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	This is a likely a Vegas error as we encode what we are given. If you add a filter on the clip, does it do it? I'm wonder it Vegas is incorrectly smart rendering even though there is a size change. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2011, 01:58 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, you have now confirmed a bug in Sony Vegas's "smart render" detection, that should include the source resolution much match the output resolution. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 22nd, 2011, 10:18 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	We are not having other customer report of this. If you crash is reporting as inside CFHDDecoder.dll, send as the file that caused the crash (maybe corrupt,) otherwise this should be a report for Sony. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 23rd, 2011, 10:21 AM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Christopher, That is a bug you should report to Sony, they control the quality selection, and should be preserving your settings. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 21st, 2011, 10:21 PM	#5
Michael Gyori New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Vancouver Posts: 19	I'm getting random crashes rendering to Cineform with Vegas 10.0c.... It seems that every update of Vegas undoes Cineform.

January 26th, 2011, 06:34 PM	#9
Michael Gyori New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Vancouver Posts: 19	It seems all my problems were related to old render templates I created in Vegas 9 that referenced Cineform. I had encountered and resolved this problem before and had thought all my templates were updated.... except, of course, the one I was trying to use recently. To fix bad templates, change the codec to something other than Cineform, then switch it back to Cineform, open the configuration, close it, and save the template. The template will then work and not immediately crash Vegas 10 before the first frame is even processed.

January 26th, 2011, 06:40 PM	#10
Michael Gyori New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Vancouver Posts: 19	It seems all my problems were related to bad render templates. If you have any templates referencing Cineform for compression in templates from Vegas 9 (or earlier) and want to use them in Vegas 10, you need to open the template, switch it to another compression codec, switch it back to Cineform, open it's configuration, close it, and save the template. Now the render template using Cineform will not crash Vegas 10 before even the first frame is processed. Sorry for the vague complaining before. Hopefully this info will help someone who is having the same crashes with Cineform and Vegas 10.